Another what would you do

[Rewire]

One more time NFPA 70 NEC 2008 680.22 (A) (3)

Were does it say you can not use a GFCI breaker on a pool ??

 

[480sparky]

One more time NFPA 70 NEC 2008 680.22 (A) (3)

That says you need a receptacle.

(3) Dwelling Unit(s). Where a permanently installed pool is installed at a dwelling unit(s), no fewer than one 125-volt, 15- or 20-ampere receptacle on a general-purpose branch circuit shall be located not less than 1.83 m (6 ft) from, and not more than 6.0 m (20 ft) from, the inside wall of the pool. This receptacle shall be located not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 6 in.) above the floor, platform, or grade level serving the pool.

Where does it say you cannot use a GFCI breaker?

 

[peter d]

Scott, do you have that bulldozer lined up for 7AM tomorrow?

 

[Power Tech]

That says you need a receptacle.

Serve up the Crow, I may be wrong. Always use a GFI receptacle because a pool contractor I worked for said you have to use a receptacle not a breaker for the light. Breakers are not legal. Pool equipment is usually located some distance from the pool and has its own panel for the pumps , timers, etc.

Where does it say you cannot use a GFCI breaker?

I was told the ratting was not the same. Rumor - here say - myth? I interpreted receptacle as as having to be GFI. I have been wasting my money all these years using a $12 GFI instead of a $35 GFI breaker. I'm not cheap and want to use the best product for the situation at hand. I have always thought a breaker illegal. If I find out a breaker is better, I will use that.

 

[480sparky]

I was told the ratting was not the same. Rumor - here say - myth? I interpreted receptacle as as having to be GFI. I have been wasting my money all these years using a $12 GFI instead of a $35 GFI breaker. I'm not cheap and want to use the best product for the situation at hand. I have always thought a breaker illegal. If I find out a breaker is better, I will use that.

I think you'll find it's six of one, half-dozen of the other.

 

[76nemo]

I won't push the issue and do a hard sell on the violations. I have them sign a form stating I have informed them of the known problems that exist.

Here's a price to install the timer, and here's a price to fix the problems. I can't force people to be smart.

"I can't force people to be smart"

Ken, that should be a bumper sticker!!!!!! I have to forward that. That's too much!!!!!! Hehehehehe:grin::grin::grin:

 

[electricmanscott]

GFI breakers are not allowed for pools.

Just to be clear, the above is what you said. The above is not true.

Also how did this become an issue about a pool light? :-?

 

[PetrosA]

Then you will be named first in the suit.

Mr. Judge, Sir, I cannot tell a lie. Me and my buddies was out drinking vodka, and we figurrd we'd rewire that there transformer just a little to get more POWER out of it for one of the guys' barn. We didn't mean no harm, serious!

 

[growler]

I counted 10 violations and explained them to the guy.

I let him know that if he wanted the timer installed I'd only do it if I rewired the entire setup properly. His response was "well it's working fine so I probably won't worry about it".

Doubt I'll ever hear from them again.

I have a hard time trying to explain safety violations to customers in a way where they will take it serious. If the guy's wife had been there you would have had a better chance because for some reason women take safety more serious than men. They really don't trust all that stuff that their husbands have had someone rig to save a few bucks ( or rigged themselves).

On a pool if things are not right then I don't want to fool with it. It's kind of hard to kill yourself in a house because they ( owners) are not normally well grounded but around a pool they are just asking for it.

I like for everything in the pool area to be GFCI protected so I would normally use breakers to protect even the line side conductor to receptacles and lights. Can't be to carefull around water.

 

[electricmanscott]

I have a hard time trying to explain safety violations to customers in a way where they will take it serious. If the guy's wife had been there you would have had a better chance because for some reason women take safety more serious than men. They really don't trust all that stuff that their husbands have had someone rig to save a few bucks ( or rigged themselves).
.

Umm, funny thing about that. I don't know that I would call either of them the wife. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Power Tech]

Just to be clear, the above is what you said. The above is not true.

Also how did this become an issue about a pool light? :-?

I'm wrong about the code, and glad to find out the option of using a GFCI breaker . Here we never GFCI protect the pool motors. They are in an enclosure far from the pool. The only thing we protect is the lighting. I looked in the handbook and was horrified seeing a motor that close to a pool. Twistlock receptacle and plug? I hard wire all motors to a pool panel with control relays built in.

 

[brantmacga]

I'm wrong about the code, and glad to find out the option of using a GFCI breaker . Here we never GFCI protect the pool motors. They are in an enclosure far from the pool. The only thing we protect is the lighting. I looked in the handbook and was horrified seeing a motor that close to a pool. Twistlock receptacle and plug? I hard wire all motors to a pool panel with control relays built in.

That GFCI recep KO you spoke of earlier, that's for the convenience recep, not pool lights.

GFCI protection on motors is required by the '08, even hard-wired. It has nothing to do with their distance from the pool.

What would be the problem with having the pumps right next to the pool? The further you put them away, the more power it takes to pump the water.

There's nothing wrong with using a twistlock either.

 

[Power Tech]

That GFCI recep KO you spoke of earlier, that's for the convenience recep, not pool lights.

GFCI protection on motors is required by the '08, even hard-wired. It has nothing to do with their distance from the pool.

What would be the problem with having the pumps right next to the pool? The further you put them away, the more power it takes to pump the water.

There's nothing wrong with using a twistlock either.

The distance is for noise. I have no problem with using twistlocks. Why bring additional parts that take time to install, cost money, and are another knot in the rope to fail.

Convince GFCI receptacle, are you saying that a GFCI breaker is better, or a GFCI receptacle is not legal?

 

[Rewire]

The distance is for noise. I have no problem with using twistlocks. Why bring additional parts that take time to install, cost money, and are another knot in the rope to fail.

Convince GFCI receptacle, are you saying that a GFCI breaker is better, or a GFCI receptacle is not legal?

Sometimes it is just a whole lot easier to admit you were wrong than to try and dance around loosing credibility with each post.

 

[LarryFine]

Sometimes it is just a whole lot easier to admit you were wrong than to try and dance around loosing credibility with each post.

Not for some poeple. The 40-year-old teenager that used to work for us, for instance.

 

[Power Tech]

Not for some poeple. The 40-year-old teenager that used to work for us, for instance.

I did admit I was wrong, or misinformed. I thought my points were valid. :-? The illustration of an install in the new handbook is poor at best. My opinion after 30 years in heavy commercial and industrial oil field work.

I found an age I liked, and stuck with it. I like being 18, I don't like being stuck in a 50 year old body though.

 

[PCN]

Not for some poeple. The 40-year-old teenager that used to work for us, for instance.

Reminds me of a quote I heard many years ago: "Hire a teenager while they still know everything". :grin:

 

[brantmacga]

Convince GFCI receptacle, are you saying that a GFCI breaker is better, or a GFCI receptacle is not legal?

A GFCI receptacle and GFCI circuit breaker serve the same purpose.


But how do you connect the light to the receptacle on the exterior of the box? (i'm wanting to know specifically how you do it, not from others on how it could be done.)

 

[Power Tech]

A GFCI receptacle and GFCI circuit breaker serve the same purpose.


But how do you connect the light to the receptacle on the exterior of the box? (i'm wanting to know specifically how you do it, not from others on how it could be done.)

Run PVC from the pool panel to the pool box (special box with 3 hubs, cord restraint, and grounding lugs made of brass), located in a planter minimum 2 ft above the water line, 4 in min above the soil. from there I run 1/2 in red brass to the pool light. Pull the cord from the light to the brass pool box. Pull the feeders and connect to the load side of a dedicated GFCI receptacle. The receptacle is on the inside of the panel (flush mount) with a flip cover on the outside for access to reset. The wire goes from the breaker to the line side of the GFCI - out the load side in the 1/2 PVC. All in the panel, no cords.

 

[brantmacga]

. All in the panel, no cords.

That's what I was curious about. :smile:


I'd been thinking you may have been putting a cord cap and plugging the pool light in.


There's nothing wrong with how you're doing it though.