standard appliance cords (supposedly) are 6 feet. at least thats what I've been told.
Aprently 90.1(C) is just a waste of ink.
- Thread starter iwire
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standard appliance cords (supposedly) are 6 feet. at least thats what I've been told.
readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
How long are the cords on equipment used in a presentation in a meeting room?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
There were 3 comments(2-148, -149, and -150) that called for the rejection of proposal 2-276, one of these comments was accepted by a vote of 8 to 4 and the other two comments were accepted by votes of 9 to 3???
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Not to me.
So have I when it is profitable to do so.
..that it is a design issue and it should be decided as such. The safety factor in requiring this is woefully lacking IMHO.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
the person on the supply side made a proposal. that individual may may or may not have a vote on panel 2. In this case I do not see him on the panel as a pincipal or a alternate.
jwjrw
Senior Member
I assume someone that would benefit from the change is on the panel. I could be wrong. I just think alot of the new changes aren't to make the electrical system safer. Seems alot like the redlight and speeding cameras they did away with here but are now trying to bring back.
most panels include manufactures, testing labs, special interest, elec contractors, labor, and inspectors with a few special experts. Oh and of course the public comment. The language is reviewed three times by the public and the public may make comments and the panels do read the comments and respond to them. when a proposal or comment is rejected the panel attempts to explain why it is rejected so the submitter can come back with a countered argument.
Nothing is perfect but considering how other codes are adopted this is not bad.
lakee911
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, OH
I think its a good idea, but does it belong in the code? I don't know ... how does this differ from receptacles should be located every 6 (or whatever) feet along the wall?
- Location
- Massachusetts
I do not think the NEC should be mandating those distances either. :grin:
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
In general the NEC code making panels have representatives from the following groups: enforcement, research/testing (UL), installer/maintainer (NECA, IEC), manufacturer (NEMA), utility, user, and labor (IBEW). No group is permitted to have more than 1/3 of the total panel membership. It requires a 2/3 majority to accept a change.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
While the person who made the proposal does not have a vote on the panel, there is an NEMA rep on the panel and I believe their reps votes are directed (told by NEMA how to vote). Note that other groups with members on the CMPs also use "directed" votes.
dbuckley
Senior Member
- Location
- Canterbury, New Zealand
If you think that having outlets at a minimim specified distance along a wall is a good idea, then you cant help but think this is correct.
Conversely, if you think this is wrong, then the same logic applies to minimum spaces along a wall; these things are in the purview of design.
They should require a couple of RJ45s in the floorbox too
Conversely, if you think this is wrong, then the same logic applies to minimum spaces along a wall; these things are in the purview of design.
They should require a couple of RJ45s in the floorbox too
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
Sales by legal mandate - awesome.... Not the first time - not the last. Is it right - no...
However - what a place to start mandating receptical placement in commercial.... If they were to start anywhere - maybe at desks... 'A cheap duplex shall be required at every desk where someone might place a space heater to keep their toes warm'.
For that matter the code should not be stating a floor outlet as the intent of this code could be covered with a pedistal or even a cheap duplex in a cabinet...
However - what a place to start mandating receptical placement in commercial.... If they were to start anywhere - maybe at desks... 'A cheap duplex shall be required at every desk where someone might place a space heater to keep their toes warm'.
For that matter the code should not be stating a floor outlet as the intent of this code could be covered with a pedistal or even a cheap duplex in a cabinet...
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I thought about this a lot when I had my coffee house. At the time it wasn't so much the laptops but the cell phone chargers. I basically decided that unless I could charge for the convenience, it wasn't up to me to provide free power to customers. Once you start on something like that, where do you draw the line - power pedestals at the outdoor tables? Minimum orders per hour to cover the power usage at occupied tables? (reading books and using laptops can mean one coffee sale blocks a table for three to four hours. Is that acceptable?) I say let the customers deal with charging their stuff at home.
I have an idea... mandate a run of plugmold around each office space since who knows where the desks will be placed
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Isn't that how AFCI first was placed into code? Who was going to use them if not required. If I recall correctly the first wording actually had a date by when it was to become a requirement. The manufacturers could not wait 3 more years to sell their new product. They also wanted to make it required so that the consumer becomes the test lab, find out what problems this new device has in the field make it a little better and then push for more required uses. Not saying the AFCI was a bad idea just don't care for how it was done.
for the conference room if required to have a center outlet I can still see extension cords and outlet strips being used. Center is not always the place where power is needed especially in a larger room like a hotel convention room, once they figure this out they will want a 6 - 12 rule for floor outlets.
cschmid
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern cold country
my gosh now we are going to move into big brother telling us how to design our businesses too..Is there no end to the issues one can create..I am at the bottom of the ladder in fact I have now realized I am the pad on the foot of the ladder and not the foot. When do we realize we can not regulate every aspect of life..so now how do we get around this regulation and someone will so we have to redefine this regulation and someone will..So where does it all stop..come on when is enough enough..these regulations have increased the cost of residential and see what has happened in that market..Now lets help destroy the commercial market as well..there is no way to enforce the current regulation correctly, so why add more..just look at the violations published on this site how many are never found or reported..So my question is Why??
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
I think there is one big difference: In many areas (I'd venture to say "most"), an engineer is required to be involved in the design of a commercial space, and is not required to be involved in the design of a residential space. It does kind of make sense to have some design mandates for residential, to directly protect people from using extension cords.
How many times do you have the fire marshal over for tea, you know? In a public space, if there's a safety concern, there's a bunch more eyes on it.
Just spitballing here...
- Location
- Massachusetts
I think there is one big difference: In many areas (I'd venture to say "most"), an engineer is required to be involved in the design of a commercial space, and is not required to be involved in the design of a residential space. It does kind of make sense to have some design mandates for residential, to directly protect people from using extension cords.
How many times do you have the fire marshal over for tea, you know? In a public space, if there's a safety concern, there's a bunch more eyes on it.
Just spitballing here...
I think that is an excellent point and if I have to go along with the NEC designing jobs it would be for residential not commercial.
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