Bandsaw to cut large wire?

[winnie]

Agreed about the utility of the A series of paper sizes. My point is that you call it A0, not 1m^2 paper, and the A0 defines both the area and the aspect ratio in a convenient form.

Wire size in gauge rather than area has a similar character. To a very good approximation, a change of 3 AWG corresponds to a doubling or halving in area. Alas the definition could have made this _exactly_ a factor of 2, but history

-Jon

 

[Besoeker]

When we hear "horsepower", we know it is mechanical output. When you hear kW regarding a motor, do you know if that is input, losses, or mechanical output?

Mechanical output. No conversion factor required.

12AWG is 12AWG. It's a simple physical description of what the conductor size actually is in real world units. Are you not from this planet?

The 12 is a physical measure of what exactly?

 

[winnie]

AWG is a measurement of diameter, based on a scale of constant diameter ratio between each AWG value.

The ratio between AWG values is 92^(1/39)

12 AWG is defined as a diameter of 0.005 inch * 92 ^ (24/39)
13 AWG is 0.005 inch * 92 ^(23/39)

I don't know why these particular values were selected.

The same sort of definition used to give the A series of paper size could have been used to define wire sizes.

-Jon

 

[Smart $]

Mechanical output. No conversion factor required.

I don't need a conversion factor for horsepower either.

When I have a 1 horsepower motor, it has the power equivalent of 1 horse.

Exactly what is 1 kilowatt of mechanical power? To me, that's about as meaningless as abstract art.

The 12 is a physical measure of what exactly?

Wire size... using the American Wire Gauge.

 

[Besoeker]

I don't need a conversion factor for horsepower either.

When I have a 1 horsepower motor, it has the power equivalent of 1 horse.

But of what relevance is that even if true?

IExactly what is 1 kilowatt of mechanical power? To me, that's about as meaningless as abstract art.

It's Tω. It really is that simple.

Wire size... using the American Wire Gauge.

But what is the 12 in real world units?

 

[Besoeker]

AWG is a measurement of diameter, based on a scale of constant diameter ratio between each AWG value.

The ratio between AWG values is 92^(1/39)

12 AWG is defined as a diameter of 0.005 inch * 92 ^ (24/39)
13 AWG is 0.005 inch * 92 ^(23/39)

I don't know why these particular values were selected.

The same sort of definition used to give the A series of paper size could have been used to define wire sizes.

-Jon

Think you made my point rather well.

 

[Smart $]

But of what relevance is that even if true?


It's Tω. It really is that simple.

Of what relevance is that?

But what is the 12 in real world units?

One full size smaller than 11 and one full size larger than 13.

AWG is a real world unit. We use it daily. How it compares to any other real world unit is irrelevant if it is the only unit we use (for those sizes :angel.

 

[Besoeker]

Of what relevance is that?

It's simple. No 33.000, no 550, no 0.746.

One full size smaller than 11 and one full size larger than 13.

But 12 what? In real world units?

 

[ggunn]

It's simple. No 33.000, no 550, no 0.746.



But 12 what? In real world units?

Any "real world unit" is completely arbitrary, anyway.

But I sure wish we'd Gone Metric when we had the chance. Every time I have to calculate something like 27 feet, 5 and 13/16 inches times cosine 24 degrees, and report the answer in the same units, it makes me want to tear my hair out, what's left of it.

 

[Smart $]

It's simple. No 33.000, no 550, no 0.746.

Same here. 1HP is 1HP. What do I need to convert?

But 12 what? In real world units?

Already covered that. Please read entire posts...

...AWG is a real world unit. We use it daily. How it compares to any other real world unit is irrelevant if it is the only unit we use (for those sizes :angel.

 

[GoldDigger]

...AWG is a real world unit. We use it daily. How it compares to any other real world unit is irrelevant if it is the only unit we use (for those sizes ).

It is a measure, but it is more problematic to call it a "unit". The problem is that it does not have any consistent dimensionality.

There would be a similar problem if instead of describing the color of monochromatic light in terms of its frequency in Hz or its wavelength (in Angstoms or mm), you chose to describe it by a number representing its position in the rainbow starting from red = 0 and going to violet = 6.
A descriptor, but not really a unit.

 

[JFletcher]

It's simple. No 33.000, no 550, no 0.746.



But 12 what? In real world units?

Wire gauges, of course. Fits right in my strippers that read "12" too. Pretty convenient.

Shotgun bores are the number of lead balls the bore size that equal 1lb. which is 454g. HP=~.75kW (746W).

Bought some soda a few hours ago. 16.7oz... 500mL, and 16oz is 473ml. From memory. I look at the bright side: I get 0.7oz more because someone wanted to go metric. Then again, a half gallon of liquor (1.75l) is two shots (1.7oz, 50mL) short of a true half gallon.

When I hear a number like 608cm, mentally I go "6 meters and change, so ~40ft", even tho I know 25.4mm=1in.

For math and measurement, I can handle two systems. Foreign languages, otoh, forget it.

 

[Smart $]

It is a measure, but it is more problematic to call it a "unit". The problem is that it does not have any consistent dimensionality.

One definition....

UNIT:
1. sciences A standard measure of a quantity.

The only problem one may have with calling AWG a unit of measure is when one tries to compare it with other linear units of measure. AWG is a logarithmic unit of measure.

DIA. =.005"·92^{((36-AWG)/39)}

Use -0, -1, -2, and -3 for 0, 00, 000, and 0000 sizes.

Another unit of measure which is logarithmic is the decibel.

 

[Besoeker]

Wire gauges, of course. Fits right in my strippers that read "12" too. Pretty convenient.

Yes, but 12 what's? Yes 12 guage I know but that doesn't tell me in real world units that I could actually measure.

In the early days when I first started on electrical design and manufacture, the steel for enclosures was typically 14 or 16 guage. Bigger number, thinner metalwork. Kinda goes against logic. Bigger number, smaller dimension.

Now we typically get 1.6mm thickness for small panels and 2mm for larger units. And sometimes 3mm for gland plates. I can actually measure that with my vernier guage and 3mm is actually 3mm. A measurable dimension.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

 

[Besoeker]

The only problem one may have with calling AWG a unit of measure is when one tries to compare it with other linear units of measure. AWG is a logarithmic unit of measure.

DIA. =.005"·92^{((36-AWG)/39)}

Says it all.
16mm² is 16mm².
No formula involved.

 

[Besoeker]

Same here. 1HP is 1HP. What do I need to convert?

Energy.
You buy energy in kWh. Not horsepower hours.

 

[Smart $]

Says it all.
16mm² is 16mm².
No formula involved.

There's no formula involved with AWG.

12AWG is 12AWG.

It's no different than 16mm² is 16mm².


In the conversion sense, how is...

DIA. =.005"·92^{((36-AWG)/39)}​

...any different than...

DIA. = (mm²)^-0.5
​

...other than being slightly more complex? A formula is required to determine the diameter of a round area no matter what the unit of measure is.

 

[Smart $]

Energy.
You buy energy in kWh. Not horsepower hours.

Yes, but you said when you hear kW with respect to a motor, it is the mechanical output... not the kW input... nor the kWh input that you pay for to run that motor...


...and I believe there'll be some math involved to get from kW output to kWh input that you pay for. :happyyes:

 

[JFletcher]

Yes, but 12 what's? Yes 12 guage I know but that doesn't tell me in real world units that I could actually measure.

In the early days when I first started on electrical design and manufacture, the steel for enclosures was typically 14 or 16 guage. Bigger number, thinner metalwork. Kinda goes against logic. Bigger number, smaller dimension.

Now we typically get 1.6mm thickness for small panels and 2mm for larger units. And sometimes 3mm for gland plates. I can actually measure that with my vernier guage and 3mm is actually 3mm. A measurable dimension.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

I was being somewhat sarcastic with my previous reply. 12AWG is really meaningless, other than I can only land it on a 20A breaker, and my 12ga strippers fit it perfectly.

So you have 4mm² wire.. isnt that a shade larger than 14ga? and you use 16/32A breakers because of it. to ME, that's odd.

2x4 lumber here is dimensionally different between regular and pressure treated, and it's been a good 70 years since there was a true 2x4 made. What do they call studs in the UK, 50x101mm (or 37x87mm)? A stud here is 93" long, and gives an 8' wall when sandwiched between a top and bottom plate (that are 1.5" thick, each...oops, 37mm).

Metric, standard, I dont care. I learned both, they are different ways of explaining the same thing.

eta: bigger number, smaller measurement, or its opposite, is an inverse relationship. nothing odd about it to me.

 

[ActionDave]

...Metric, standard, I dont care. I learned both, they are different ways of explaining the same thing..

Except that with standard you can evenly divide by both halves and thirds. Standard wins.