Banned panels and breakers

[garbo]

I worked at a large slaughterhouse that had Pushmatic circuit breakers. When they got old some did not reset. The only problem we had was when a flush mounted Pushmatic panel in one of the boning rooms had walls washed down every night so once or twice a year the top two wet circuit breakers had to be replaced. Never was a fan of Pushmatic some what flimsy twin circuit breakers. The bolt on Pushmatic attachment in my experience had a lower failure rate then the plug in Murray and other then Square D circuit breakers.

 

[gene6]

I have always liked pushmatic, i like the idea of bolt to buss.
If they still made them I'd buy them.

 

[gene6]

Garbage in garbage out.

They are also getting data from newer vehicles like my new work van, in real time.
They know every time I hit the gas or the brakes:

Automakers tracking drivers, sharing data with car insurance companies

Automakers are using vehicles' internet-connection capabilities to track consumers' driving behavior and sharing the data with insurance companies, a new report reveals.

www.foxbusiness.com

I have herd it can be disabled, a plumber I know disabled his.

 

[hillbilly1]

They are also getting data from newer vehicles like my new work van, in real time.
They know every time I hit the gas or the brakes:

Automakers tracking drivers, sharing data with car insurance companies

Automakers are using vehicles' internet-connection capabilities to track consumers' driving behavior and sharing the data with insurance companies, a new report reveals.

www.foxbusiness.com

I have herd it can be disabled, a plumber I know disabled his.

I have no doubt, GM keeps turning on my Onstar with limited service for free, so no doubt they are selling the info. Didn’t think about that anterior motive. I just figured they were trying to get me to resubscribe.

 

[Birken Vogt]

They are also getting data from newer vehicles like my new work van, in real time.
They know every time I hit the gas or the brakes:

Automakers tracking drivers, sharing data with car insurance companies

Automakers are using vehicles' internet-connection capabilities to track consumers' driving behavior and sharing the data with insurance companies, a new report reveals.

www.foxbusiness.com

I have herd it can be disabled, a plumber I know disabled his.

I have been involved with company trucks and vans with these dumb sensors on them. Good drivers getting reprimanded or fired because they hit some new pothole that recently appeared, or slammed on the brakes because a kid ran in the road.

The machines and algorithms are starting to rule us like some sci fi movie.

 

[letgomywago]

Push Matic is a "Winner" ... They didn't work too well in desert climate.

I like them bull dog panels they're the only ones that still function from that time

 

[mtnelect]

I like them bull dog panels they're the only ones that still function from that time

In the desert climate (Winds & Dust) they get stuck ... You had to "Push" them several times to reset. I also like them since they went to the buss.

 

[letgomywago]

In the desert climate (Winds & Dust) they get stuck ... You had to "Push" them several times to reset. I also like them since they went to the buss.

I'm from former farm land high desert that is until they built 100000 houses and apartments. Bulldog panels from 80 years ago no issues till home sale and they were covered in dust. I replaced one about a year ago here on the coast and it was immaculate and functional. Might be the SW heat that pushes them over.

 

[mtnelect]

I'm from former farm land high desert that is until they built 100000 houses and apartments. Bulldog panels from 80 years ago no issues till home sale and they were covered in dust. I replaced one about a year ago here on the coast and it was immaculate and functional. Might be the SW heat that pushes them over.

When I say "Desert Climate" Los Angeles is at the same latitude as Egypt.

 

[CoolWill]

Aren't the Pushmatics thermal-trip only?

 

[mtnelect]

Aren't the Pushmatics thermal-trip only?

They aren't a sophisticated device, just a common run of the mill device.

 

[letgomywago]

Aren't the Pushmatics thermal-trip only?

Yep

 

[hillbilly1]

I have been involved with company trucks and vans with these dumb sensors on them. Good drivers getting reprimanded or fired because they hit some new pothole that recently appeared, or slammed on the brakes because a kid ran in the road.

The machines and algorithms are starting to rule us like some sci fi movie.

I live in the mountains, and the thing would go off every time I went around a curve, they finally turned off that function. The vans were top heavy, and always swayed at any curve.

 

[kwired]

As far as Square D the only issues I’ve see are with the old XO block frame breakers. I don’t think seen one in the field in the last 30 years.

They introduced the QO breaker in I believe about 1955. Still mostly the same thing today, at least the parts that matter, been changes to markings on the case over the years but internals haven't changed much at all, and the Homeline series is supposed to have the same internal components as the QO line has for the most part.

They did have a time in late 60's to early 70's that they had some poor design for bus on certain load centers, they were aluminum and unlike any aluminum bus that is around now they weren't tin plated. When someone is having problems with that series panel one the first things I check for is bad bus to breaker connections, and probably 95 plus percent of the time that is the issue.

 

[kwired]

The only Square D I’ve seen problems with were fusible switches. I can’t remember if it was the QMB, or which models it was. But it was mainly due to lack of maintenance and operation. The grease would dry up, and sometimes the blades would not open.

I run into that on a wide variety of switches from various manufacturers, usually they open but because of the grease situation they don't always make good contact when you close them. I've applied grease to many in the field that barely make contact when you close the switch and they usually seat better afterwards.

 

[kwired]

I know Squsre D had a recall a few years back on a certain type of panel. I wonder if that’s why.


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The recent problem (like two or three years ago) with QO panels was a problem with the main connection to the neural rail that plug on neutral breakers plug onto. If you weren't using any plug on AFCI/GFCI's it really wasn't any problem, for you. They did come up with a field repair solution for them. The problem was with improper tap for the set screw that made the connection which resulted in the set screw reaching the designed tightening torque (during factory assembly) before it actually made proper contact with the bus rail.

Homeline panels were not effected as their neutral bus is designed completely differently.

 

[kwired]

Face it it's all Junk compared to what it used to be. Look at a residential panel.

1. A tin box
2. a main breaker
3. a couple off busbars
4 a bunch of plastic
5. a neutral bar and maybe a ground bar.

I always thought the QO was better quality but maybe not.

That one and the Cutler Hammer CH series are the only good ones when it comes to plug on breakers.

QO had a problem with some as I mentioned with the aluminum bus back in the 70's. Today they are tin plated copper. Only their smaller frame 6 and 8 circuit panels use an aluminum bus AFAIK. They are tin plated though. And I think they do make a version with copper bus but not the common stock item particularly in big box stores.

 

[Greg1707]

I am a contractor in CA and we just these lists of banned electrical panels and breakers from a condo HOA.
First carrier gave this list:


View attachment 2572031

The second carrier gave this:







There is no need to talk about FPE at all.

The same with small frame Zinsco breakers.

Now Zinsco did not make their own large frame breakers, there is a lot of switch gear and meter distribution panels with GE breakers. I don’t think these were ever part of investigations into Zinsco’s issues. I don’t think a Zinsco placard on one of these sections of gear should make that assembly bad.

Going into old buildings and pulling out old gear with new will 98% of the time never fit in the old electrical rooms.

I have not seen issues with Bulldog products other than they often don’t like to reset, but never from a failure to trip.

But if you are now going to ban:
ITE Siemans
Challenger
Square D

I was shocked to see Square D make this list.

This is the 6th HOA or property management group that has come to us in the last 4 months concerning both residential and commercial properties.

We are left with:
Eaton gear, panels, and breakers.

Old Westinghouse gear.

Leviton panels and breakers.

Small regional independent manufacturers?

Your feed back is greatly appreciated.

In Northern Virginia many many condos and apartments built in the 1970s have Federal Pacific panels. In the last year I have received calls from several property managers soliciting bids for replacing the panels. It is the same story. The insurance company is pressuring them to replace the panels. The insurance companies are threatening cancelation or big increases.

We know these panels have a bad reputation but did something happen that provoked this response from the insurance companies?

 

[hillbilly1]

In Northern Virginia many many condos and apartments built in the 1970s have Federal Pacific panels. In the last year I have received calls from several property managers soliciting bids for replacing the panels. It is the same story. The insurance company is pressuring them to replace the panels. The insurance companies are threatening cancelation or big increases.

We know these panels have a bad reputation but did something happen that provoked this response from the insurance companies?

Justification of rate increases. The property manager has to figure which would cost less, either way, the insurance company wins.

 

[ramsy]

did something happen that provoked this response from the insurance companies?

Insurance & HOAssociations don't provide any defect, recall, listing violations, opportunity for inspections, or AHJ reports, for the condemned electrical brands, which only require maintenance per NEC 110.12(B).

The insurance demands completely ignore missing smoke alarms, missing xFCI safety devices, extension-cord hazards, interior remodel hazards, flying splices, & leaky gas appliance connections, much less is actuarial data offered that plug-on GE or Eaton CH equipment is apparently superior to SQ-D, or bolt-on Pushmatic.