Behavior of Joule Heating in few contact points terminals and arcing

[tersh]

Unless there is evidence of loose connection, you should not re-tighten/re-torque aluminium/copper conductor connections.

Why? What if it's barely tightened?

 

[mbrooke]

It's not just me. I mean. Over the years I have literally met hundreds of paranormal subjects. The system where we can fix qualia has brand name called "Pranic Healing" (google it and you will know what I mean). But what I want to do is develop a complete science of it while eliminating all the hocus focus or junk science that comes with it. It's a goal that needs the cooperation of scientists. That's why my task ahead is just to encourage where research is needed. I know some will say I was deluded. But I wish I were. But it's not as simple as saying it. In this world. We really need the advance science that need to come soon. And humanity as a whole will progress by leaps and bounds if we can at least get a working theory that can encourage all the rest to follow. Bottomline is, it should be about hard data and theory that can be tested.

I agree. Look into quantum entanglement. I don't know how much you believe in "ghosts" but if legit it shows that we do not have anywhere near a complete understanding of reality. I think the same phenomenon also influences probability and events. Also look into the many worlds theory. Time line divergence. Parallel universes and the Mandela effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation


I honestly believe part of it- if not 90% of it- is deliberate misinformation to cover up the parts that are true. Its not only ignorance that is at play in this world, but also those who want to maintain control over the current system which keeps them in power.


The human brain plays a big role in this. No matter what anyone says it is a quantum mechanic organ as much as a neuro scientist will tell you its an electro-chemical machine, reasonable for half of all reality... But they don't tell you that, because its not something you are supposed to know...

Sorry for the off topic. Let's not talk about it now. But about electrical things. Lol. Well Have you notice that General Electric breakers depend so much on casing for alignment.

I have. The case aligns most of the moving parts and they sure exert a great deal of pressure on the notches.

I mean if you press the magnetic strip. It won't trip because the lever is not straight (needs casing to push it down and make it straight). Also the strip has separate spring while others are integrated. In Westinghouse and Siemens breakers. You can make it trip by pushing the magnetic strip without any casing cover. I spent 2 hours just analyzing the General Electric breakers. It's important because 90% of our breakers in our country are all General Electric. In terms of breaking down. Do you think Siemens or GE are more robust? I know it's the overall package that counts. Which do you think is more resistant to breakdown?

Honestly, you want quality? Go for Homeline and Square D. While GE is still good, they were never my favorite breakers. Back in 2010 I used to find so many defective ones right out of the box.

 

[tersh]

I agree. Look into quantum entanglement. I don't know how much you believe in "ghosts" but if legit it shows that we do not have anywhere near a complete understanding of reality. I think the same phenomenon also influences probability and events. Also look into the many worlds theory. Time line divergence. Parallel universes and the Mandela effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation


I honestly believe part of it- if not 90% of it- is deliberate misinformation to cover up the parts that are true. Its not only ignorance that is at play in this world, but also those who want to maintain control over the current system which keeps them in power.


The human brain plays a big role in this. No matter what anyone says it is a quantum mechanic organ as much as a neuro scientist will tell you its an electro-chemical machine, reasonable for half of all reality... But they don't tell you that, because its not something you are supposed to know...

I'm so familiar with quantum mechanics. Been studying it for more than 15 years. But whatever the mind field is. It's none of the familiar physics concept. What we can do now is manipulate it. For those with disorders in the extension (ghost body) You have to fix the extensions. But if it's in the physical or brain. Then there is nothing that can be done. The problem with those pranic healers are majority are fanatics and ignorant. It's now has branches in all countries of the world including multiple in the USA. It originated in the Philippines. It was there I met hundreds of the most paranormal subjects in the world who came to learn it. It's almost like in the company of X-Men. Lol. My task it to filter what is true and discover the science and throw away the junk stuff.

I have. The case aligns most of the moving parts and they sure exert a great deal of pressure on the notches.


Honestly, you want quality? Go for Homeline and Square D. While GE is still good, they were never my favorite breakers. Back in 2010 I used to find so many defective ones right out of the box.

I can only re-assemble the GE breaker in "Trip" position. I tried to cover it in OFF or ON position but the spring kept jumping out or the lever misaligning. May I know what is the following green strip? Is it the magnetic strip? I assume the electromagnet is the silver besides it in the housing. But what is that thing in the middle of it (the separate thing in green I got from another unit)? How does it function? Which one bends?

Do all GE breakers have the same internal parts? The model of the 3 pole is:

90% of the population use it because the spring clips are very simple and compatible with locally produced bad quality panel and bus bar which are not 90% angled. Are Square D spring clips identical to the GE?

 

[mbrooke]

I'm so familiar with quantum mechanics. Been studying it for more than 15 years. But whatever the mind field is. It's none of the familiar physics concept. What we can do now is manipulate it. For those with disorders in the extension (ghost body) You have to fix the extensions. But if it's in the physical or brain. Then there is nothing that can be done. The problem with those pranic healers are majority are fanatics and ignorant. It's now has branches in all countries of the world including multiple in the USA. It originated in the Philippines. It was there I met hundreds of the most paranormal subjects in the world who came to learn it. It's almost like in the company of X-Men. Lol. My task it to filter what is true and discover the science and throw away the junk stuff.

Environment has a profound influence on the brain was well- epigentics for starters.

Good to know you are sorting out all the BS.

I can only re-assemble the GE breaker in "Trip" position. I tried to cover it in OFF or ON position but the spring kept jumping out or the lever misaligning. May I know what is the following green strip? Is it the magnetic strip? I assume the electromagnet is the silver besides it in the housing. But what is that thing in the middle of it (the separate thing in green I got from another unit)? How does it function? Which one bends?

The green is the magnetic armature, it moves in the magnetic field. I'm not 100% sure what the silver strip is for, but I think its the part which the common trip pushes against. Since you have the breaker open, what does the common trip push against exactly?

Do all GE breakers have the same internal parts? The model of the 3 pole is:

90% of the population use it because the spring clips are very simple and compatible with locally produced bad quality panel and bus bar which are not 90% angled. Are Square D spring clips identical to the GE?

All 10ka GE breakers have the same internals for about several amperages. Ie 15-20 are the same inside, 30-50 the same, ect minus the tension spring and bimetal. Those are different to get the required thermal and magnetic pickups for a given handle rating.


Somewhere in the early 2000s GE changed the internal design on all 15-125 amp breakers. At least for those sold in the US.

 

[tersh]

Environment has a profound influence on the brain was well- epigentics for starters.

Good to know you are sorting out all the BS.

The bullshit part believed by pranic healing fanatics is that it can kill the bacteria. The true ones I have fully verified is it can treat the chakras (nonphysical transformers) which can affect neuroplasticity and consciousness. It can treat

disorders such as holes in chakras caused by heroin, drugs which allow pure energy insects to affect the brain making some commit crimes. I'm so sure of this after decades of experiences). ​

In short. I know the brains make up our mind but it has extensions. The extensions give us the full richness of what it feels like to be us, or the horrors when there is disorders that influences neuroplasticity.

The green is the magnetic armature, it moves in the magnetic field. I'm not 100% sure what the silver strip is for, but I think its the part which the common trip pushes against. Since you have the breaker open, what does the common trip push against exactly?





All 10ka GE breakers have the same internals for about several amperages. Ie 15-20 are the same inside, 30-50 the same, ect minus the tension spring and bimetal. Those are different to get the required thermal and magnetic pickups for a given handle rating.


Somewhere in the early 2000s GE changed the internal design on all 15-125 amp breakers. At least for those sold in the US.

Is the green one not the bimetal too that bends where it reaches the ampere threshold?

You were right. The metal in the middle of the green is to make the common trip push it (to facilitate better common trip movement push).

Was this the newer design that no longer jam the tripping of the partner when the common handle was removed?

All of my breakers installed in the office bldg. and house are GE brands. So most others. Do you know the reason why most of our breakers were GE brands. Was it because of their excellent marketing or they are more forgiving of locally designed panels with not so good quality? But I noticed the regular Siemens QP breakers have similar spring clips. But no one uses Siemens breakers.

 

[mbrooke]

The bullshit part believed by pranic healing fanatics is that it can kill the bacteria. The true ones I have fully verified is it can treat the chakras (nonphysical transformers) which can affect neuroplasticity and consciousness. It can treat

disorders such as holes in chakras caused by heroin, drugs which allow pure energy insects to affect the brain making some commit crimes. I'm so sure of this after decades of experiences).
​

In short. I know the brains make up our mind but it has extensions. The extensions give us the full richness of what it feels like to be us, or the horrors when there is disorders that influences neuroplasticity.

Your on the right track :thumbsup:

Is the green one not the bimetal too that bends where it reaches the ampere threshold?

You were right. The metal in the middle of the green is to make the common trip push it (to facilitate better common trip movement push).

Was this the newer design that no longer jam the tripping of the partner when the common handle was removed?

Yes, I did not encounter this in the new design no matter how hard I tried. In so far all the breakers I have seen you post are the old design.

All of my breakers installed in the office bldg. and house are GE brands. So most others. Do you know the reason why most of our breakers were GE brands. Was it because of their excellent marketing or they are more forgiving of locally designed panels with not so good quality? But I noticed the regular Siemens QP breakers have similar spring clips. But no one uses Siemens breakers.

No idea, but I'd guess all the above. I know that out of all the panel brands in the US, GE has the fewest busbar burn ups. They are good at "biting" the bus stabs. Also GE was generally seen as an economy brand, they were common with home builders in the US.

 

[tersh]

Your on the right track :thumbsup:

I have suffered damage chakras too and know what it felt like. The challenge is how to use the correct terms to share it with the medical and scientific community. I'm exploring whether it is just informational field that we somehow constructed the chakra form to facilitate imagery. This is what I'll contemplate when I travelled to the LHC next year

Yes, I did not encounter this in the new design no matter how hard I tried. In so far all the breakers I have seen you post are the old design.




No idea, but I'd guess all the above. I know that out of all the panel brands in the US, GE has the fewest busbar burn ups. They are good at "biting" the bus stabs. Also GE was generally seen as an economy brand, they were common with home builders in the US.

In message #68 https://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=196215&page=7&p=1977832#post1977832 you showed a 1987 GE breaker which has similar trip mechanism as the one I shown above.

I wonder why I still get those old version. Maybe they sent Asia the junk models? What are the newer model numbers which used the new common trip design? And what else are newly designed? Btw.. I lost both springs and will look for them tomorrow. The springs just jumped out the open breakers when put in Off or On positions, lol.

Also after this detailed teardown of the breakers with suspected arc flash. You can see there is no way it is shorted inside between the two of the 3 pole terminals. And since I really saw the electrican inserted the live wire to the empty 3rd terminal. There was no dead short between two phases. Could it really be carbonized particles that somehow triggered it? I'm thinking that when it ignited, the carbonized particles vaporized immediately, but it was enough to make it form arc flash that occurred inches away from the surface. That was why the plastic in between them not burnt? In the initial short, there was no damage, that was why we still wanted to use it. Unfortunately, I didn't take picture of the first short.

 

[mbrooke]

I have suffered damage chakras too and know what it felt like. The challenge is how to use the correct terms to share it with the medical and scientific community. I'm exploring whether it is just informational field that we somehow constructed the chakra form to facilitate imagery. This is what I'll contemplate when I travelled to the LHC next year

If you can, post pics. Its worth it if you ask me.

In message #68 https://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=196215&page=7&p=1977832#post1977832 you showed a 1987 GE breaker which has similar trip mechanism as the one I shown above.

Actually thats a new version 100amp breaker from about 2011. Notice the smaller common trip mechanism.

I wonder why I still get those old version. Maybe they sent Asia the junk models? What are the newer model numbers which used the new common trip design? And what else are newly designed? Btw.. I lost both springs and will look for them tomorrow. The springs just jumped out the open breakers when put in Off or On positions, lol.

Where are yours made? I think that might be it.

The newer ones have thinner parts, less stress on the case, and are over all better if you ask me. I'll see if I can find you a pic.

Also after this detailed teardown of the breakers with suspected arc flash. You can see there is no way it is shorted inside between the two of the 3 pole terminals. And since I really saw the electrican inserted the live wire to the empty 3rd terminal. There was no dead short between two phases. Could it really be carbonized particles that somehow triggered it? I'm thinking that when it ignited, the carbonized particles vaporized immediately, but it was enough to make it form arc flash that occurred inches away from the surface. That was why the plastic in between them not burnt? In the initial short, there was no damage, that was why we still wanted to use it. Unfortunately, I didn't take picture of the first short.

Honestly, and this is just my opinion: more took place then you saw. I don't know, I can only speculate.

 

[Sahib]

Why? What if it's barely tightened?

NFPA 70B, Recommended Practice for Electrical Equipment Maintenance, does not call for retightening aluminum conductors. Connections should only be tightened if there is evidence of a loose connection. Both over-tightening and under-tightening can cause failure of aluminum or copper connections. Unwarranted re-tightening of screw-type connectors can lead to failure of the connection with either aluminum or copper conductors.

 

[tersh]

If you can, post pics. Its worth it if you ask me.

If you will google "pranic healing", You will see all branches around the world. It couldn't have spread if people don't see any benefits. But it's hidden in the mainstream because of many rubbish concepts in the gem which I'm trying to completely overhaul to make it understandable to the mainstream scientific community. When you have time, just google the 2 words and you will see everything.

Actually thats a new version 100amp breaker from about 2011. Notice the smaller common trip mechanism.

You showed this image in message #68 commenting it was 1987 breaker design. It has same common trip as mine. The new version 100 amp breaker from about 2011 is the one shown in message #69, right?

Where are yours made? I think that might be it.

The newer ones have thinner parts, less stress on the case, and are over all better if you ask me. I'll see if I can find you a pic.

The 3 pole I teardown is made in Singapore.

Honestly, and this is just my opinion: more took place then you saw. I don't know, I can only speculate.

I watched everything. I'll share you tomorrow the pics of the before and after photos of the panels.

 

[mbrooke]

If you will google "pranic healing", You will see all branches around the world. It couldn't have spread if people don't see any benefits. But it's hidden in the mainstream because of many rubbish concepts in the gem which I'm trying to completely overhaul to make it understandable to the mainstream scientific community. When you have time, just google the 2 words and you will see everything.

Will do, and trust me, I understand when you say its hidden :happyyes::happyyes:

You showed this image in message #68 commenting it was 1987 breaker design. It has same common trip as mine. The new version 100 amp breaker from about 2011 is the one shown in message #69, right?

Yes, you have the 1987 design I posted.

The 3 pole I teardown is made in Singapore.

That might be it, the newer ones are assembled in the Dominican republic. On the side if you can find the pic, though you have to zoom in and turn your head:


https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Q-Line-20-Amp-1-in-Single-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-THQL1120/100356508

I watched everything. I'll share you tomorrow the pics of the before and after photos of the panels.

Share more Philippine panels if you have them. It is interesting for me to compare.

 

[mbrooke]

If you will google "pranic healing", You will see all branches around the world. It couldn't have spread if people don't see any benefits. But it's hidden in the mainstream because of many rubbish concepts in the gem which I'm trying to completely overhaul to make it understandable to the mainstream scientific community. When you have time, just google the 2 words and you will see everything.




You showed this image in message #68 commenting it was 1987 breaker design. It has same common trip as mine. The new version 100 amp breaker from about 2011 is the one shown in message #69, right?

The 3 pole I teardown is made in Singapore.







I watched everything. I'll share you tomorrow the pics of the before and after photos of the panels.

I will post pics of the new design. 20 amp 1 inch single pole:

 

[mbrooke]

GE 20 amp single pole 1 inch thick:

 

[mbrooke]

20 amp 1/2 inch THQP:

 

[mbrooke]

20amp 1/2 inch THQP- the internals are the same (100% identical except the bus pinch) as the 1 inch 20amp GE THQL:

 

[mbrooke]

20 amp 2 pole Homeline (handle tie was removed)

 

[mbrooke]

1980s 40amp 2 pole GE breaker. (The handle tie is also removed, I was testing to see if the other makes/amp ratings jam after I discovered it on the 20amp GE)

 

[mbrooke]

1980s 2 pole 40 amp:

 

[tersh]

1980s 2 pole 40 amp:

Thanks for all the images mbrookes. So our GE breakers being sold locally were all old design and junk.

That's why using Schneider latest model din rail MCBs is best idea. However, I need to know something. In industrial plants where arc flash can occur, do they use din rail MCBs in the panels or bigger breakers with wider separation?

See the other thread for updates latest pictures of the sequence of events of the possible arc flash. If It was really arc flash. Then it means we must avoid din rail MCBs and instead use plug-in with wider separations between terminals?

I'll share with you the local panels pics tomorrow as I have to look for them from file photos I took of different panels when I was contemplating how to put the Siemens GFCI breakers last year.

 

[mbrooke]

Thanks for all the images mbrookes. So our GE breakers being sold locally were all old design and junk.

That's why using Schneider latest model din rail MCBs is best idea. However, I need to know something. In industrial plants where arc flash can occur, do they use din rail MCBs in the panels or bigger breakers with wider separation?

See the other thread for updates latest pictures of the sequence of events of the possible arc flash. If It was really arc flash. Then it means we must avoid din rail MCBs and instead use plug-in with wider separations between terminals?

I'll share with you the local panels pics tomorrow as I have to look for them from file photos I took of different panels when I was contemplating how to put the Siemens GFCI breakers last year.

I don't think your incident should effect the choice of DIN vs plug on breakers. Forgive my heartless words that are about to follow- but if you play stupid games you will win stupid prizes. The stupid game is working live. The prize is fire, arc flash, down time, ruined equipment and starting over. Never work live unless you have proper PPE- and even then don't do it unless you want damaged equipment. Yes I know in the US electricians work live all the time, but you will also hear countless stories of falling off of ladders, blowing holes in tools, ect.

I doubt that a new breaker would flash over from carbon deposits. My honest opinion is that the electricians aren't telling you something and much more took place then terminals being hooked up to a breaker in the on off position.


But in any case it is certainly possible for a short circuit to burn skin and cause blisters, as well as the sparks and molten metal igniting clothing and burning what ever it comes in contact with.


Were those the service conductors he was hooking up? In that case a short circuit will take its time clearing, if ever. POCO wires should always be treated as unfused because sometimes they literally are.