Bell timer help needed

[iwire]

So I need some help here, my 86 year old mom has asked me to automate the bell at her church. How can I say no?

Anyway, they have an electric bell striker and controller now but it is manually operated.

I need a way to ring it for say 10 seconds at noon Mon-Sat and 45 seconds on Sunday at noon.

The problem I am finding is standard digital lighting timers have minimum off times of 60 seconds which is too long.

I could use any suggestions at all how to make this work reliablly and inexpensively.

There is a momentary N.O. switch now and one quick push of it starts the bell controller which rings the bell 3 times in a pattern. It will keep doing that as long as the button is pushed.


I have been googling bell timers etc but all I keep finding are far too complex and want to tie into a network and PCs / mobile devices etc. They don't want any of that, they just want the bell to ring once a day reliably.

Thanks in advance, Bob

 

[ptonsparky]

What is inexpensive?

A smart relay of almost anyone's should work. Make sure you get one with a real time clock function. They, some, can be programmed without software and computer.

 

[kwired]

Current setup use some kind of cam-timer, or an electronic replacement for a cam timer?

Do you need to manually press that button at noon to get the once a day function as it is now?

If yes to those questions, may be able to add on to what is there a 24 hour timer to get the noon trigger, and a interval timer to limit output to 10 seconds. Still leaves the wanted 45 seconds on Sunday to come up with another line and extra components on the control schematic.

Can still leave push button for on demand usage.

We have local churches that have electronic "bells" (a loudspeaker) and have had controls for some real bells on some of them in the past, not sure what they had for controllers though. Old church in a nearby town rang every hour (and still does) - the correct number of rings to indicate the hour. Did that when I was a kid, and probably well before my time, but I would guess it had a 24 hour cam type of timer and somewhat complex set of switches and cams. There has to be much cheaper electronic version somewhere.

A place that sells such systems may have something that will do what you want. Some church supply companies may even have some of this kind of items.

 

[mgookin]

What is inexpensive?

...

Anything that says "Request A Quote" on the website!

...

A smart relay of almost anyone's should work. Make sure you get one with a real time clock function. They, some, can be programmed without software and computer.

Good idea you have there though. You're on to something.

 

[kwired]

Isn't a smart relay nearly the same thing as a PLC but maybe somewhat limited on what functions it can have, and likely more limited on number of I/O's or expandability?

 

[Smart $]

Isn't a smart relay nearly the same thing as a PLC but maybe somewhat limited on what functions it can have, and likely more limited on number of I/O's or expandability?

Depends on who you are talking with. I would consider a smart relay a dumb mini/micro-controller, but perhaps have higher current rating on the output contacts.

 

[kwired]

Depends on who you are talking with. I would consider a smart relay a dumb mini/micro-controller, but perhaps have higher current rating on the output contacts.

So a smart relay can be as simple as a 4-20ma input with single variable output controller, or something with multiple inputs/outputs and some programmable logic, yet is not quite as versatile as what most call a PLC.

Maybe even a "definite purpose controller" like say a typical programmable heating and cooling thermostat could be called a smart relay to some extent?

 

[Smart $]

So a smart relay can be as simple as a 4-20ma input with single variable output controller, or something with multiple inputs/outputs and some programmable logic, yet is not quite as versatile as what most call a PLC.

Maybe even a "definite purpose controller" like say a typical programmable heating and cooling thermostat could be called a smart relay to some extent?

As I said, it depends on who you are talking with. We could discuss opinions of examples, but I'm going to avoid hijacking the thread... :happyyes:

 

[Jraef]

It likely only needs one output to engage the bell striker solenoid, maybe only one input as an on-off switch. A smart relay /nano PLC to do that could cost less than $100, something like an AB Micro810. Programming software is free, but it can be programmed from a front panel without it anyway.
http://ab.rockwellautomation.com/Programmable-Controllers/Micro810

 

[Smart $]

...
I have been googling bell timers etc but all I keep finding are far too complex and want to tie into a network and PCs / mobile devices etc. They don't want any of that, they just want the bell to ring once a day reliably.
...

Ran across by Googling, but perhaps http://churchbellministry.com/

Sounds like your (mom's) church doesn't need the whole system. Maybe Mr. Smith will sell you just the necessary parts.

 

[Smart $]

View attachment 13757

The problem I see with going this route is addressing problems that may arise (e.g. the simple ones: daylight savings time adjustment, clock accuracy). Guess who gets the call???

 

[ptonsparky]

It likely only needs one output to engage the bell striker solenoid, maybe only one input as an on-off switch. A smart relay /nano PLC to do that could cost less than $100, something like an AB Micro810. Programming software is free, but it can be programmed from a front panel without it anyway.
http://ab.rockwellautomation.com/Programmable-Controllers/Micro810
View attachment 13757

Yes.

 

[gar]

151110-1721 EST

iwire:

Find a young person that likes to play with computers, electronics, and programming.

Have that person marry a small micro-computer with some form of Dallas real-time-clock and some solid-state relay to perform your function.

I started using a Dallas DS1216 in 1992. There are many different versions of this basic concept that have evolved over the years. Basic accuracy is quite good, but more accurate ones are available, and some are synchronized to the AC line to reduce cumulative error.

One bullet point is:
"

• Keeps Track of Hundredths of Seconds, Seconds, Minutes, Hours, Days, Date of the Month, Months, and Years

"
Also handles leap years to 2100. All battery backed up.

See at least https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/digital/real-time-clocks/DS1216B.html

,

 

[zbang]

Add a button input to select Daylight/Standard time and leave the RTC alone. Then you only have to reset the clock when it drifts (my alarm clock has this, really nice for the fall-back part). Bonus for a DST LED indicator.

If you want, add a button that will force the clock to the closest top of the hour (my car radio....).

 

[Smart $]

Add a button input to select Daylight/Standard time and leave the RTC alone. Then you only have to reset the clock when it drifts (my alarm clock has this, really nice for the fall-back part). Bonus for a DST LED indicator.

If you want, add a button that will force the clock to the closest top of the hour (my car radio....).

The thing about microcontrollers is adding a button or sensor for this or that is quite easy... but speaks nothing to the fact you have to program each button or sensor to do what you want (or the customer). Even that is not that hard once you know how to program the little buggers. But getting to that point, and retaining that knowledge for future encounters is the real challenge.

I programmed some Mitsubishi Alpha controllers for a fairly complex I/O scenario about 15 years ago. I remember zilch about how to program them today because I haven't used any since.

 

[hbiss]

The thing about microcontrollers is adding a button or sensor for this or that is quite easy... but speaks nothing to the fact you have to program each button or sensor to do what you want (or the customer). Even that is not that hard once you know how to program the little buggers. But getting to that point, and retaining that knowledge for future encounters is the real challenge.

I programmed some Mitsubishi Alpha controllers for a fairly complex I/O scenario about 15 years ago. I remember zilch about how to program them today because I haven't used any since.

I agree. That's the problem when you "roll your own" in this situation. When (not if) you're not in the picture any longer the system is worthless because a church will have no one to maintain it.

I have worked with these guys in the past- http://www.chimemaster.com/ installing a digital carillon at a local church. In addition it included a hammer and controller to sound the existing 200 year old bell. I strongly recommend that you contact them, their service is excellent, there is user friendly documentation and there will always be someone available to answer questions.

With this church there was someone who was kind enough to donate the system but I certainly understand that all churches are not that lucky. I might suggest that a fund drive be set up to accept donations to cover the cost because whatever is spent on a DIY project is money down the drain in my experience.

-Hal

 

[J.P.]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=bell timer

None of these will work?



Here is a cut off you can set for whatever you want. Use it with a digital lighting timer. It's cheap and seems simple.
http://www.automationsource.com/p-7...612v-dc.aspx?gclid=CK6y_d-gh8kCFZKBaQodgGwCKQ

 

[GoldDigger]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=bell timer

None of these will work?

The first link, the school bell timer unit, looks like it could do the job with the ability to set the pulse length and have a different schedule each day. What is not clear is whether you can use different pulse lengths for different events. If it can do that, the most the OP might need to add would be a relay to get the dry contact closure he needs.

 

[J.P.]

The second link then. You could use it with a standard Digital timer. Just how big of a deal breaker are the different bell lengths?

http://www.westsidewholesale.com/in...gle_Shopping&gclid=CO_eiLGhh8kCFQ-RaQod-tUC8g

Maybe run two timers and two cut offs, but by then you might as well spend some money on a real bell system. It's a write for the church.

 

[GoldDigger]

The second link then. You could use it with a standard Digital timer.http://www.westsidewholesale.com/in...gle_Shopping&gclid=CO_eiLGhh8kCFQ-RaQod-tUC8g

I doubt that it could do either the 10 second or 45 second output pulse length. But at that price you could use one for weekdays and one for Sunday and connect each one to a differently set relay based time delay circuit to drive the bell button.