Bell timer help needed

[iwire]

What is inexpensive?

Not expensive.

I am donating my time and more than likely my Mom will be paying for the parts.

A smart relay of almost anyone's should work. Make sure you get one with a real time clock function. They, some, can be programmed without software and computer.

I am not familiar with smart relays, but I am willing to learn.

 

[iwire]

Current setup use some kind of cam-timer, or an electronic replacement for a cam timer?

Cam timer, once it is started it does one revolution with three cams making the bell sound. The cams can b moved for timing between strikes.

Do you need to manually press that button at noon to get the once a day function as it is now?

Yes, nothing happens without a human pushing or holding the button.

If yes to those questions, may be able to add on to what is there a 24 hour timer to get the noon trigger, and a interval timer to limit output to 10 seconds.

That was pretty much the direction I was heading, I can get a 7 day timer to provide a longer signal on Sundays.


I was just hoping to find one device to do the job.

A place that sells such systems may have something that will do what you want. Some church supply companies may even have some of this kind of items.

The company that makes the existing controller and bell striker has automation controls but they want big money for them.

 

[iwire]

Ran across by Googling, but perhaps http://churchbellministry.com/

Sounds like your (mom's) church doesn't need the whole system. Maybe Mr. Smith will sell you just the necessary parts.

Nice, I will follow up on that. :thumbsup:

 

[iwire]

It likely only needs one output to engage the bell striker solenoid, maybe only one input as an on-off switch.

The problem I see with going this route is addressing problems that may arise (e.g. the simple ones: daylight savings time adjustment, clock accuracy). Guess who gets the call???

Yes.

I agree. That's the problem when you "roll your own" in this situation. When (not if) you're not in the picture any longer the system is worthless because a church will have no one to maintain it.

Smart and Hbiss, yes you see the same issue I do, whatever I install must be basic, simple to understand and not need adjustments a couple of times a year. For this to hold its value to the church for years into the future it must be reliable on its own.

I am installing this only because my mom told me too and once she is gone that church will never see me again.

 

[iwire]

151110-1721 EST

iwire:

Find a young person that likes to play with computers, electronics, and programming.

Have that person marry a small micro-computer with some form of Dallas real-time-clock and some solid-state relay to perform your function.

I started using a Dallas DS1216 in 1992. There are many different versions of this basic concept that have evolved over the years. Basic accuracy is quite good, but more accurate ones are available, and some are synchronized to the AC line to reduce cumulative error.

One bullet point is:
"

• Keeps Track of Hundredths of Seconds, Seconds, Minutes, Hours, Days, Date of the Month, Months, and Years

"
Also handles leap years to 2100. All battery backed up.

See at least https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/digital/real-time-clocks/DS1216B.html

,

Gar, God bless you and your knowledge but your idea of simple and my idea of simple could not be further apart.

This needs to be used by folks who are not technically savvy.

 

[iwire]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=bell timer

None of these will work?



Here is a cut off you can set for whatever you want. Use it with a digital lighting timer. It's cheap and seems simple.
http://www.automationsource.com/p-7...612v-dc.aspx?gclid=CK6y_d-gh8kCFZKBaQodgGwCKQ

Thanks, I will look into it.

It seems I will end up using a 7 day lighting timer in combination with a one shot timer.

 

[iwire]

Just how big of a deal breaker are the different bell lengths?

To me not a big deal.

But it is something they requested.

 

[iwire]

By the way, thank you all for the suggestions and info. I do appreciate it.

Any other suggestions would be great.

 

[mivey]

By the way, thank you all for the suggestions and info. I do appreciate it.

Any other suggestions would be great.

Hire a sub, take mom to dinner, sit back and watch a ball game and write a check when done.

 

[SceneryDriver]

Use a standard, off-the-shelf, industrial durability controller. In short, a PLC.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...s_(Stackable_Micro_Brick)/PLC_Units/C0-01AR-D

This Click PLC has a real time clock, 120VAC inputs, and relay outputs. The only other devices you will need in the cabinet are 24VDC power supply and possibly an interposing relay if the load to be driven by the PLC output(s) is greater than the PLC relays' rating.

Power supply:

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...Stackable_Micro_Brick)/Power_Supplies/C0-00AC

Interposing relays and sockets:

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...1_-z-_782_-z-_783_-z-_784_Series)/782-2C-120A

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...kets_-a-_Accessories/Relay_Sockets/782-2C-SKT


The PLC programming software is free, though you'll need a programming cable.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...el_Programming_S-z-W_-a-_Cables/EA-MG-PGM-CBL

Everything on the list mounts to 35mm DIN rail, so placing it all in a small cabinet is a breeze.



SceneryDriver

 

[ptonsparky]

Finally had a little time for the CLICK

Not exactly what you want because twice a year someone will need to press PBs you supply to adjust for DST.

View attachment 13811

 

[ptonsparky]

I don't know how I managed the PDF attachment. Lucky if I ever do that again.

DT= Daily Time of chime. ST = Sunday Time of chime. (Length of time)

I assumed Sunday.

 

[big john]

You can get a single-gang astrological timer switch for less than $50 that would take care of DST. Put an off-delay 1-shot relay on the output to set your bell ringing interval.

The whole job could be done for about $150 in material and would be set-it-and-forget it.

 

[ActionDave]

You can get a single-gang astrological timer switch for less than $50 that would take care of DST. Put an off-delay 1-shot relay on the output to set your bell ringing interval.

The whole job could be done for about $150 in material and would be set-it-and-forget it.

I like it.

 

[Netpog]

I think J.P. gave it to you on posts 17 (second link only) & 19. You'll need two each of that simple Intermatics timer and the cutoff timer. Plus a 12v power source (cheap!).

Any reason that's not ideal? Just under $100 in parts isn't so bad, is it?

Intermatic makes 7 day timers with two controlled channels/outputs (each would serve a differently-set cutoff timer). They seem to have hundreds of models of timers, including a few of these, some of which aren't discontinued.

 

[mgookin]

You can get a single-gang astrological timer switch for less than $50 that would take care of DST. Put an off-delay 1-shot relay on the output to set your bell ringing interval.

The whole job could be done for about $150 in material and would be set-it-and-forget it.

That's not happening. The problem is stupid humans change their clock but the laws of Physics don't.

 

[iwire]

Use a standard, off-the-shelf, industrial durability controller. In short, a PLC.

LOL, as soon as I saw you member name I knew it would be a PLC.

Much to complicated for (most) seniors.

You can get a single-gang astrological timer switch for less than $50 that would take care of DST. Put an off-delay 1-shot relay on the output to set your bell ringing interval.

The whole job could be done for about $150 in material and would be set-it-and-forget it.

This is the direction I am leaning.

 

[mgookin]

That's not happening. The problem is stupid humans change their clock but the laws of Physics don't.

My apologies. I did not realize that there are astronomical timers on the market with DST capability.

The stupid reference above was relative to using DST in the first place. The most bizarre justification I ever read (and it was on CNN a few years back) what that we started to use DST during a war so we could grow more food because the sun will be up longer!

 

[gar]

151116-2032 EST

For whatever device is selected you need to understand how the internal real time clock works.

If it is a synchronous motor driven clock, then it has to be reset on loss of AC power, or to handle standard and daylight time. The standard vs daylight could be automated, but no good reason to do it.

If it is electronic with an internal crystal clock, then it will have some long term drift, and requires external logic and/or software to handle standard vs daylight.

If it is electronic with an internal crystal and means to sync with the 60 Hz line, then it can correct for cumulative drift except for loss of AC power.

If it is electronc and based on the NBS (NIST these days) atomic clock, then with high probablity it will almost always be accurate to 1 second.

.

 

[Smart $]

... If it is electronc and based on the NBS (NIST these days) atomic clock, then with high probablity it will almost always be accurate to 1 second.

Given the "senior" factor desired, I would not install any other type.

The means should also make the ST/DST issue moot and have program retention on power loss.