Bolt on breaker panel boards

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codeunderstanding

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On 120v/208v panel boards that have the bolt on breakers if you have to change breaker that went bad do you guys shut the panel off or do you change it out live. If you change it out live is there any tricks to use to get the breaker out without the bolt falling down the buss?
 
As a rule of safety the panel should be de-energized before servicing but we know that's not always feasible. In my experience the screw (a.k.a. "bolt") shouldn't fall out of the fingers unless it's unscrewed too far. These can be changed out like just like a snap-in but care should be taken, like you mentioned, to not have the screws fall into the buss should one come loose.
 
As always, disconnect the power source if possible, but I have used several methods including using a little duct seal, or magnitizing the screw driver.
 
lanowets said:
As always, disconnect the power source if possible, but I have used several methods including using a little duct seal, or magnitizing the screw driver.
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Especially with older ones. Duct seal its a GoodThing.

Neat use for duct seal:
Instead of a 'hide a key' embed your spare key in a hunk of duct seal and jam it up inside a wheel well. After about 100 miles it's covered in dust and dirt and no will ever touch it (even the oil change droid) cause it will look like a tar blob. Tell your employee it is there? hmm maybe not ;)

At home tuck the duct seal & key under an exterior bell box.
Instant camo.
 
BryanMD said:
Especially with older ones. Duct seal its a GoodThing.

Neat use for duct seal:
Instead of a 'hide a key' embed your spare key in a hunk of duct seal and jam it up inside a wheel well. After about 100 miles it's covered in dust and dirt and no will ever touch it (even the oil change droid) cause it will look like a tar blob. Tell your employee it is there? hmm maybe not ;)

At home tuck the duct seal & key under an exterior bell box.
Instant camo.
Click to expand...


My favorite use is telling the cubbies it's C4 plastic explosive...."You know, that military stuff that goes 'boom!'" as you throw it into the job box. :grin:
 
You back it with a regular screwdrive so far and then use a screw starter. Most of the time the screw will set in breaker screw hole.
 
I recommend shut power off. But if you cant, use 1000V screw driver, and arc flash PPE. screws should be retained in breaker if you dont back them out to far.
 
DAWGS said:
I recommend shut power off. But if you cant, use 1000V screw driver, and arc flash PPE. screws should be retained in breaker if you dont back them out to far.
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Also, make sure the breaker is off so the load doesn't arc.

Plus, pull out gently on the breaker as you unscrew so the screw is held against the part of the breaker holding it.
 
I use a Valco screw holding screwdriver. They used to be one of the few companies that made a decent screw holding screwdriver, but I see Greenlee has a nice one now.

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Judging from most of the responses it appears that the majority have not received 70E training. I'm not trying to be a smart alec. It can be a scheduled shut down 99% of the time. We have to change the way we do business on live equipment. Convenience is no excuse to work live.
 
Not one of you have mention wearing proper protective clothing, when performing something that should be avoided!

Not a sermon, just a thought.
 
yanici said:
Judging from most of the responses it appears that the majority have not received 70E training. .
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Au contraire. You do what you do, and I'll do what I do, and we'll all be happy.

Shouldn't the use of PPE be a "given" by now? Sorta like we don't say, "Don't forget to put on your pants before you leave for work in the morning".
 
mdshunk said:
Shouldn't the use of PPE be a "given" by now? Sorta like we don't say, "Don't forget to put on your pants before you leave for work in the morning".
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Well most people do put on their pants, a form of PPE f there ever was one. :grin:

But few people wear the needed PPE for live work.
 
A shut down would be best.Duck seal doesnt always work.Problem with shut downs is customer might not care to use you.Its not as easy as saying shut down sunday at 9 am for a 24 /7 operation.Its always my own call.If i say no then let them call the shop.Accidents do happen so do what your ok with and not pushed into.
 
iwire said:
Well most people do put on their pants, a form of PPE if there ever was one. :grin:

But few people wear the needed PPE for live work.
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LMAO !!!! :grin:
 
It's all nice and fine to say you will require a shutdown but when you're the employee and your boss expects you to do it live either you do it live or eventually you'll be looking for another company. And PPE.. You guys must work for some good EC's or be the good EC. Where I live I've never heard one electrician talk about PPE for changing out a bolt on breaker.. Welcome to the real world.
 
wireman71 said:
It's all nice and fine to say you will require a shutdown but when you're the employee and your boss expects you to do it live either you do it live or eventually you'll be looking for another company. And PPE.. You guys must work for some good EC's or be the good EC. Where I live I've never heard one electrician talk about PPE for changing out a bolt on breaker.. Welcome to the real world.
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Everything you say is right on target. Your safety has taken a back seat for years. Even though we have laws to protect us, they have no teeth until we insist upon their enforcement. I wish I had the answer to how to get everyone on the same page. I'm retired now and even though I won't be exposed to your dangers anymore I still feel concern for you guys. Unless the safety issue is pushed it will never come about. Be careful.
 
I have about 25 years in the trade now, in my area I have seen things changing.

70E and companies bottom line is going to force a lot of changes.
 
wireman71 said:
It's all nice and fine to say you will require a shutdown but when you're the employee and your boss expects you to do it live either you do it live or eventually you'll be looking for another company. And PPE.. You guys must work for some good EC's or be the good EC. Where I live I've never heard one electrician talk about PPE for changing out a bolt on breaker.. Welcome to the real world.
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Welcome to the real world? Your world must be under a rock somewhere, you dont have any idea of the hazards you are exposing yourself to do you?
 
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