according to 250.104(A)(1), I don't think so. The steel would have to be an elctrode.
Bonding H2O to Structural Steel
- Thread starter ivsenroute
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ivsenroute
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
If it can be proven that the structural steel meets the requirements of an electrode then I don't have a problem with it.
- Location
- Massachusetts
But if the building steel is available it must be used as an electrode.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I disagree. The water pipe is being bonded and is not an electrode either
- Location
- Massachusetts
If is connected to footing in contact with the earth, then IMO it is imposable to say it is not an electrode.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
It must meet the requirements of 250.52(2). I was assuming it wasn't from the op statements. :-?
But 250.104 requires the water (even if it is not an electrode) to be bonded to an electrode
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Or back to the service which it is. No?
I missed how it got back to the service....except thru the steel...
and..oddity in the Code, we can't use the steel as a grounding conductor (250.136) but we can use it as an electrode.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
In the OP's opening post he said the steel is bonding to the electrical room which I assume meant service.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Maybe I missed something. I assumed he ran the bond for the water pipe from the steel where it was bonded to the service. I see what is going on now. He used the steel down the other end to connect to the water. Is that correct?
In the diagram Bob posted from the handbook the steel is being used. :-?
In the diagram Bob posted from the handbook the steel is being used. :-?
I may be running this in circles (not my intent) as this may be the OP originals question,,,but if the steel is bonded to the service but it not connected to any of the electrodes noted in 250.52(A)(2) then it is bonded but it is not an electrode. 250.104 requires the water (electrode or not) to be connected to an electrode or the service.
Since steel cannot be used as a conductor, it would seem a violation to use it as the connection means to the service.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Gus all I see in 250.136 is that the steel cannot be used for an EGC. Doesn't say anything about a GEC.
elohr46
Senior Member
- Location
- square one
In the graphic posted by Bob, the GEC is directly connected to the building steel, therefore the building steel must be an electrode. 250.64(F)(1)
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
How can it not be connected to the electrode if it is tied to the service. The CEE is connected at the service so then the steel would be connected to the cee. No?
How about 250.62 ?
A whole 'nuter can of worms. Does 250.52(A)(2) require the connection to be "direct" for the steel to be considerd an electrode.
I would think yes, since in sutuations where you have more than one service, removing one would then make break your steel to electrdoe connection.
It's an OPINION guys....what do you think ? let's not make it a Dennsi and Gus show 
If the CEE is connected at the panel and the steel is bonded to the panel, does that qualify the steel as a Grounding Electrode under 250.52(A)(2), or does the steel have to connect directly to the electrode(s) noted in that section.
If the CEE is connected at the panel and the steel is bonded to the panel, does that qualify the steel as a Grounding Electrode under 250.52(A)(2), or does the steel have to connect directly to the electrode(s) noted in that section.
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
I think it's a piece of the pie that everyone took a piece of, where's Celtic - LA Pie Master...
I don't daisy chain a bond, nor a grounded application, as the OP described.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Okay back to the Dennis and Gus Show. :grin:It's an OPINION guys....what do you think ? let's not make it a Dennsi and Gus show
If the CEE is connected at the panel and the steel is bonded to the panel, does that qualify the steel as a Grounding Electrode under 250.52(A)(2), or does the steel have to connect directly to the electrode(s) noted in that section.
First off I want to state that grounding is not my forte and I bond etc as Jude (cadpoint) does but probably because I am not sure of what is allowed.
Okay, I do not think because the steel is connected to the cee it becomes an electrode at all. If that were the case that everything metal in the building that is grounded would be an electrode.
I also think it would be a rare case where the building steel is not an electrode. Here we must assume it isn't since the OP has stated that. The water pipe in this case is not an electrode either since there is plastic coming into the building.
My understanding here is that, of course, they must be bonded. The question is whether we can bond the steel and then use the steel structure to bond to the water pipe.
My feeling is that all we need to do is bond these objects. Now, how do we do that. We can run from the panel to the steel and one from the panel to the water pipe. We all agree with that, I hope. So the question is can we use the steel to obtain the bond to the water pipe on the other end of the building. I would think so but am not sure.
In my eyes this has nothing to do with electrodes but just bonding of the steel and the water pipe.
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