Bonding

[Blaine Hall]

My business installs removable fencing in the decks surrounding swimming pools.

The NEC 2002 Edition, Article 680 (swimming pools, fountains, and similar installations),

Sub section: Article 680.26 Bonding (A) Performance: The bonding required by this section shall be installed to eliminate voltage gradients in the pool area as prescribed.

Sub section 680.26, 680.26 paragraph (3) (Metal Fittings) states: All metal fittings within or attached to the pool structure shall be bonded. Isolated parts that are not over 100mm (4 in.) in any dimension and do not penetrate into the pool structure more than 25mm (1 in.) shall not require bonding.

Question:
Background: We drill a 1 1/4 diameter hole completly through the concrete deck. We then insert a non-conductive 4" tall cylindrical sleeve with a bottom and a lip to seat against the top surface of the deck into the deck. It is this sleeve that the aluminum fence poles go into. The aluminum poles are 30" on centers connected by a non conductive polyester/nylon mesh. The product is safety fencing to keep young children and toddlers safe from the hazards of the swimming pool.
Does my product require bonding to eliminate the voltage gradients and identified in section (A) above, or is there not a voltage gradient hazard since the poles are inserted into a non-conductive sleeve?

Blaine Hall

 

[JohnJ0906]

How far from the pool?

 

[Blaine Hall]

Bonding

When it is within 5 feet of the waters edge.

Blaine Hall

 

[Cavie]

Question:

Does my product require bonding to eliminate the voltage gradients and identified in section (A) above, or is there not a voltage gradient hazard since the poles are inserted into a non-conductive sleeve?

Blaine Hall

NO. It would be impossible to bond all the post and make it removible.

 

[Blaine Hall]

Bonding

I understand that. Fresno County, CA is requiring it however, and they don't care of the difficulty. I therefore am loosing sales when it is subject to county approval. My question relates to the fact that the poles are going into non-conductive sleeves and in my mind doesn't constitute an electrical gradient problem since the poles are isolated from the deck.

Blaine Hall

 

[iwire]

My question relates to the fact that the poles are going into non-conductive sleeves

Unfortunately the NEC has no exception for that.

Lets say the homeowner decides to tie an extension cord to your post. If the cord shorted to the post it would be live.

I am not saying that is likely, just pointing out that many things can happen and people do die regularly from electrocution.

Perhaps you could come up with a non-conductive post?

Fiberglass, PVC etc.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

680.26(B)(5) is very clear that these posts require bonding if they are made of metal and are within 5' of the inside wall of the pool. There are no code exemptions just because you find the task of bonding to be difficult to impossible.
Don

 

[Blaine Hall]

Bonding

Thank you for the reply. It is not, however clear. The code refers to a "metal fitting on or within the deck". What I am putting in the deck is a plastic sleeve. My question, if you read carefully, is one of electrical safety. Again, is there an electrical gradient issue in my case?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Blaine,

It is not, however clear. The code refers to a "metal fitting on or within the deck".

You are not looking at the code section that I cited. You are looking at 680.26(B)(3) and I cited 680.26(B)(5). The section I cited covers all metal parts, including things like window frames and your posts. If think it should read otherwise, submit a proposal for the 2011 code.

680.26(B)(5) Metal Wiring Methods and Equipment Metal-sheathed cables and raceways, metal piping, and all fixed metal parts that are within the following distances of the pool, except those separated from the pool by a permanent barrier, shall be bonded.

Don

 

[Blaine Hall]

Bonding

This is the last time I will respond to you. Please pay attention.

My question is: Is there an electrical gradient issue with my fencing system as the posts are isolated within a non-conductive sleeve.

 

[M. D.]

This is the last time I will respond to you. Please pay attention.

My question is: Is there an electrical gradient issue with my fencing system as the posts are isolated within a non-conductive sleeve.

There is a bonding issue, the metal posts need to be bonded so there will not be a gradient issue, even if the a nonconductive sleeve were to come up 12" above the deck or the earth , if the metal post is within 5' it shall be bonded

 

[Blaine Hall]

Bonding

So, with this thinking, there is a potential issue with furniture, lounge chairs, anything metal even if isolated with rubber wheels, plastic foot pads, etc. Does this make sense to you?

Blaine Hall

 

[M. D.]

The only hope is the use of the term "fixed" in 680.26(B)(5) Might be hard to find consensus on what is meant by "fixed". If they are "fixed" in place when the inspector shows up ,...the book says what it says , if they are not fixed in place when he shows up,.. well then ,they are not fixed . good luck!

 

[M. D.]

A definition of fixed;: securely placed or fastened

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Blaine,

This is the last time I will respond to you. Please pay attention.
My question is: Is there an electrical gradient issue with my fencing system as the posts are isolated within a non-conductive sleeve.

That question has no bearing on the issue...the rule requires your posts to be bonded. There are lots of rules in the code that do not appear to make technical sense, but that doesn't mean you can ignore them. In your case, I really doubt that you can maintain complete isolation from the concrete or the earth below the concrete. Have your inserts been tested and listed as electrical insulators?...not that would make any difference.
Like I said before, if you don't think the rule is valid, submit a proposal to change it for the 2011 code.
Don

 

[Cavie]

Move your business to the land of pools in SW Florida. We don't bond them.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Blaine
Don't get too upset, it clouds the mind from making good judgements.

From the explanation you have provided, I would also say you are in violation if the metallic posts are within 5 feet of the pool's edge.

As has been suggested, maybe it is time for your company to come up with an alternate plan and try to make the posts out of non conducting material.
Because of pool safety (the reason you are also in business), this is one battle you will not win.
Good luck, and let us know how you make out.

 

[brian john]

So, with this thinking, there is a potential issue with furniture, lounge chairs, anything metal even if isolated with rubber wheels, plastic foot pads, etc. Does this make sense to you?

YEP, a teenager was killed at a hotel in the Washington DC area several years back ungrounded door frame at a hotel was accidentally energized (I do not recall how), in a rain storm she grabbed the door handle. What are the odds? To her and her family on that day way too great. Hotel was held liable.

It would seem to be the solution is a sleeve that is bonded and when the fence post is slipped into the sleeve it is bonded, some sort of slip fitting that is designed to insure adequate connection.

 

[iwire]

Move your business to the land of pools in SW Florida. We don't bond them.

Say what ????

Please explain.

 

[M. D.]

Here is what they say at Gaurdian's pool fence regarding removable fencing

Guardian?s removable pool fence installs non-conductive HDPE plastic sleeves in the deck, meeting the National electrical codes.

http://www.guardianpoolfence.com/removable-pool-fences.html