Box Recommendation for Furred Out Wall

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Jerramundi

Senior Member
Location
Chicago
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Licensed Residential Electrician
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infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
Never figured out why people put 2x4s flat on a concrete wall. You gain a whopping 4" in both directions. Makes running wire, box fill,cover plates, etc. difficult.
I agree. Why anyone wouldn't frame with metal studs is beyond me. If you're worried about a few lost inches use 1 5/8" or 2½" metal studs. I did a job years ago where the homeowner insisted on using furring strips. When I asked how we would install the electrical boxes he said "I'll chop out holes in the block walls". When I was done laughing he said he was serious and he chopped about 25 holes in foundation walls to accommodate the boxes. Who would want 25 holes in their foundation wall? :rolleyes:
 

norcal

Senior Member
If you are determined to have flat 2X4 furring strips shim out the 2X's a 1/4" from the concrete walls then use 1900 boxes w/ 5/8" rings with 1/2" drywall, just don't use boxes for NM cable, since the screw for the cable clamp will push against the concrete leading to bulges in the wall around each box, but steel studs as suggested in post #23 is a better idea, as lumber quality is poor, might even save money with steel, had typed out my post before noticed the post above.:oops:
 

4x4dually

Senior Member
Location
Stillwater, OK
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I am curious about the safe room, for tornadoes, right? What kind of door? How long are you provisioned for staying?
Battery power?
I see a few questions about our safe room/office. The plan here is to have a slab level tornado shelter. I'm almost 50 and plan on retiring and dying in this new house. When/if I get old, I want to be able to walk/roll/crawl into a shelter without going up or down stairs in my future old age. The door will be steel and rated for over 300 mph winds and debris. The door will come from the same contactor that will install the room. There will be a wooden door on the house side so that it appears to just be another bedroom or closet, when in fact, open the wooden door and there is a steel door behind it.

The office part just means that we will have our desk, PCs, paperwork, photo albums, etc stored in the room for security. The fiber optic feed from the phone company will land inside it. Phone and wifi will be on UPS. Also, all guns and ammo will be stored in this room. Basically, if we want to leave for the weekend, we can shut the steel door and lock, then shut the wooden door which will have two key-only deadbolts, and everything of any value in the house will be locked away. If someone wants to break in and get to any of it, it will take them a long time and lots of effort. Not saying it can't be done, but common thieves will not have the resources to breech it. There will be a small HVAC feed to the room. Under normal conditions, the steel door will be open and the air will return out under the wooden door. This will allow our Geo-Therm to control humidity which is important for gun/ammo storage. The room is currently 10'-11" x 12'-11". There will be some snacks and water and a few toiletry type items in the room. If a storm comes through and buries us in it, I wouldn't expect to be there more than 24 hours. I'm not a doomsday prepper....but there is no sense in not being prepared for something as simple as this. If you pour a 6" wall, you might as well pour an 8" wall.

The concrete ceiling also gives us a place in the attic to place all the geothermal equipment. The attic ladder will enter the attic space at the edge of it. So I can walk up the ladder right onto the concrete and walk around and service filters or whatever I need to do to our geo-therm all-in-on unit. No outside condenser. I think it will work out nicely.
 

4x4dually

Senior Member
Location
Stillwater, OK
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Ours had a door that was steel and steel frame. The door open into the safe room so it would not get blocked from debris. It was in a down stairs closet it had recpts,light with battery back up, ventilation, refridge. Old cell phone for 911, em radio and tv. motorcycle helmets battery operated chain saw
When one is installed in it is registered with the city and it location in the house is pinned. This way you will be found or at least checked on. The fire dept or emergency service will hack there way in.
It made a great gun safe as well.
Us Okies think alike. ^^^^^^^^ Tulsa man knows what's up. LOL
 

4x4dually

Senior Member
Location
Stillwater, OK
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I agree. Why anyone wouldn't frame with metal studs is beyond me. If you're worried about a few lost inches use 1 5/8" or 2½" metal studs. I did a job years ago where the homeowner insisted on using furring strips. When I asked how we would install the electrical boxes he said "I'll chop out holes in the block walls". When I was done laughing he said he was serious and he chopped about 25 holes in foundation walls to accommodate the boxes. Who would want 25 holes in their foundation wall? :rolleyes:
We met with the builder last Thursday and I asked him how they planned on furring out the walls. He told me the 2x4's. We aren't sold on it. I hate those flimsy ass metal studs but in this situation, they might be better. Not sure on cost. We might switch to that at some point. If so, I'll just run EMT and bend a dozen shepherd's hooks and strap with zip ties. LAMO Kidding.

I do plan on hanging some sort of huge peg board across one side to mount all the guns on the wall. This will need some support, so we need to base our selection on what we can firmly hang some serious weight on as well. TBD.
 

retirede

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Did you consider not finishing the walls at all? Given its intended use, you won’t be spending a lot of time in that room (hopefully). I kind of like the concrete industrial look!
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I am curious about the safe room, for tornadoes, right? What kind of door? How long are you provisioned for staying?
Battery power?
They have been sort of common here, often located under a slab that has a exterior patio or front porch above it. Some really small others rather large.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Did you consider not finishing the walls at all? Given its intended use, you won’t be spending a lot of time in that room (hopefully). I kind of like the concrete industrial look!
depending on where you are on the globe, you might want some insulation in that wall?

I had a little office in a basement room in last house I lived in, we didn't fur the wall out on that one, just put "surewall" on it and painted it. That room was pretty cold in winter months. Even just minimal covering would have made some difference.
 

Frank DuVal

Senior Member
Location
Fredericksburg, VA 21 Hours from Winged Horses wi
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Engineer
There will be a wooden door on the house side so that it appears to just be another bedroom or closet, when in fact, open the wooden door and there is a steel door behind it.
Make sure you have a pick axe or fireman's axe mounted in the room so you can get out by breaking through the wood door! It just takes a fallen truss or studs to block that wood door.

Absolutely insulation. Haven't temperatures been in the 90s there? Concrete gets hot and stays hot.
 

4x4dually

Senior Member
Location
Stillwater, OK
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Make sure you have a pick axe or fireman's axe mounted in the room so you can get out by breaking through the wood door! It just takes a fallen truss or studs to block that wood door.

Absolutely insulation. Haven't temperatures been in the 90s there? Concrete gets hot and stays hot.
I'm not worried about getting out. Someone will come get us. I'd rather be trapped in a room alive with some supplies than not.

The room is positioned such that two sides are external. Those sides will have 2x6 stud walls with 5" of open cell with 7/16 OSB plus 1" Poly ISO plus bricks on the outside. It will be tight as a banjo string and insulated to the hilt. It will not get hot.

Our main money on this house will be spent on insulation and efficiency. I want to heat it with a candle and cool it with a fan. And yes, in Ok, we see 100-102 highs in the summer sometimes.

Screenshot 2022-06-21 105115.jpg
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Oh the draftsman comes out in me when I see drawing here and else where! Sorry
I'm sure it's oversight but the two door can't be the same number, because they are not the same; including sizes.
Opening in concrete walls are usually (not always) sized to masonry work. Thus your concrete wall opening
might be a 3'-4" MO (monument opening). the framing spec. opening for a door is a different size.

With all this desire to get the shelter built please don't miss the headache that could happen over spec'd doors.
 

4x4dually

Senior Member
Location
Stillwater, OK
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Oh the draftsman comes out in me when I see drawing here and else where! Sorry
I'm sure it's oversight but the two door can't be the same number, because they are not the same; including sizes.
Opening in concrete walls are usually (not always) sized to masonry work. Thus your concrete wall opening
might be a 3'-4" MO (monument opening). the framing spec. opening for a door is a different size.

With all this desire to get the shelter built please don't miss the headache that could happen over spec'd doors.
I hear ya. The shelter and shelter door are going to be framed, poured, and installed by a shelter contractor. They provide the door and everything. Once done, the framers will frame around it for the other walls and doors. I'm a drafter around 50% of my time here at the office as well so I catch the details too, but doesn't really matter what the print says, it will be good in the end. The interior wood door will be 3'0' x 68" and the shelter door will be whatever they frame up in the 3'0" approximation.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I hear ya. The shelter and shelter door are going to be framed, poured, and installed by a shelter contractor. They provide the door and everything. Once done, the framers will frame around it for the other walls and doors. I'm a drafter around 50% of my time here at the office as well so I catch the details too, but doesn't really matter what the print says, it will be good in the end. The interior wood door will be 3'0' x 68" and the shelter door will be whatever they frame up in the 3'0" approximation.
shouldn't it say 3668 on the plan instead of 3068 then?
 

suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
I'm thinking this is feet inches and not all inches. A 68" door is darn short. A 6' 8" door is normal. so 3068 could be 3' 0" x 6' 8". What the drafting standard is I do not know, is there even is a universal standard.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I'm thinking this is feet inches and not all inches. A 68" door is darn short. A 6' 8" door is normal. so 3068 could be 3' 0" x 6' 8". What the drafting standard is I do not know, is there even is a universal standard.
True I wasn't thinking much about height, but that is a short door.

I still think identifying something like that in inches is more common so maybe should been 3680?
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I'm thinking this is feet inches and not all inches. A 68" door is darn short. A 6' 8" door is normal. so 3068 could be 3' 0" x 6' 8". What the drafting standard is I do not know, is there even is a universal standard.
That's correct, doors are sized as you've noted.
 

Amps

Electrical Contractor
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical, Security, Networks and Everything Else.
Have not seen any posts about GFI protection or box conductor capacity.
 
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