Box Recommendation for Furred Out Wall

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Frank DuVal

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Location
Fredericksburg, VA 21 Hours from Winged Horses wi
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Electrical Contractor, Electrical Engineer
Doors are sized by feet inches x feet inches. A three oh six eight door is 3 feet 0 inches wide by 6 feet 8 inches tall in the door slab opening. The interior door slab with be smaller in width by 1/8 inch or so, and 1 1/2" or so shorter in height (typical 1" air space under door slab[not to be confused with concrete slab...]). An exterior door slab will be sized in height to be tight to the threshold with the gasket in place.

I've never seen door sizes that were not this way, but, I have not seen all doors for sale!:LOL:
 

4x4dually

Senior Member
Location
Stillwater, OK
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Yes, I thought it was underground.
All good. We cut a hole in our shop floor several years ago and poured a 8'x12' cellar. I just surface mounted boxes and used EMT in it...but I want a little 'more' for the new, 'forever' home. ;) That one is below grade but still doesn't have GFIs in it. I don't usually comply with rules I think are hogwash on my own place.
 

Jerramundi

Senior Member
Location
Chicago
Occupation
Licensed Residential Electrician
Maybe I mis-spoke when I said "hogwash." I get the intent since some spaces below grade may get damp and wet. Ours does not. Just like I'm not going to give the OEMs hundreds of extra dollars for some hokus-pokus ACFI breakers either. :cool:
An engineer calling AFCI's hokus-pokus. Shots fired, lol.
 

4x4dually

Senior Member
Location
Stillwater, OK
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
An engineer calling AFCI's hokus-pokus. Shots fired, lol.
I won't call them hokus-pokus per say, I understand the technology and why they were mandated.....greed. What I can't get over is how they cram it down our throats and force people to spend 4 times what they should on breakers when 9 times out of 10 the issues with fires is poopy wiring or poopy devices that never should have been used in the first place. $.02
 
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Frank DuVal

Senior Member
Location
Fredericksburg, VA 21 Hours from Winged Horses wi
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Engineer
poopy devices that never should have been used in the first place. $.02
Sounds like you have a beef with the UL organization.

And poopy wiring, who hasn't seen a nail or screw go through proper wiring?:unsure: Now, whether these ever caused a house fire is up for discussion. I am not a fan of AFCI breakers either.

BTW, if you carpet the concrete floor, GFCI is not required anyway. ;) They are only for unfinished spaces. Sounds like an office is a finished space. Also not required if the concrete slab is above grade in a home, even if not a habitable room, my interpretation of 210.8.
 
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4x4dually

Senior Member
Location
Stillwater, OK
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
The new office/shelter space will have LVP flooring and the old cellar has rubber stall mat flooring. New will be sheet rocked and finished and old is just painted. So the line between safety and no safety is carpet? Not debating it...just showing how silly it sounds. ;)

It's all good. If I were a licensed electrician I'd play by the rules for sure.
 

4x4dually

Senior Member
Location
Stillwater, OK
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Ah, uninspected work. I'll be quiet.;)
Indeed. We are out in the sticks and there won't be any inspections that I'm aware of. It's no excuse to not wire it correctly or use good hardware, I'm just not going to dump hundreds of extra dollars into my two 200A panels for the sake of some magic arc detection.
 

Jerramundi

Senior Member
Location
Chicago
Occupation
Licensed Residential Electrician
Indeed. We are out in the sticks and there won't be any inspections that I'm aware of. It's no excuse to not wire it correctly or use good hardware, I'm just not going to dump hundreds of extra dollars into my two 200A panels for the sake of some magic arc detection.
I'm with you on the cost aspect. I understand the breakers themselves are more intricate, etc., but what was once $50 a breaker is ridiculous IMO, especially when compared to the normal cost of $5+. You just added anywhere between $500 - $1,000 dollars to the cost of a panel...

....and ultimately, while we're liable for everything in the end, we're still at the mercy of the HO's bank account. You can talk code and safety all day long, but if they can't afford it or don't want to pay for it, you're SOL. Can't break into a home to install AFCI's, haha... although that would be hilarious.

What are we to do if we plan a job to not trigger AFCI requirements, do the job, and it end being that we went over that 6ft mark by 1-2ft and now have to install AFCI's and come back to the HO with an additional $500 in charges and they don't want to pay for it? Rip everything out? I've seen a few videos where a ballsy contractor supposedly went into a home to rip out work that wasn't paid for, but I don't think that's gonna fly in most cases unless you got some friends in high places.

As far as I understand it, they work... but I've always wondered, if they work and are so crucial to safety, why are we allowed that 6ft leniency? Shouldn't they just be mandated, no exceptions?
 
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Jerramundi

Senior Member
Location
Chicago
Occupation
Licensed Residential Electrician
I see others are just a good at complete thread derailment as I am. :ROFLMAO:

Carry on, brothers-n-electrons. Carry on. :cool:
I'd hardly call a brief tangent about AFCI's "thread derailment," nor would I ever laugh about the "derailment of dreams," but okay.

As for your OP, is there a reason no one has suggested masonry boxes? Or did I miss it somewhere in the thread? I've never done a "safe room" before. Are we avoiding that solution to keep the thickness of the walls in tact?
 
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Jerramundi

Senior Member
Location
Chicago
Occupation
Licensed Residential Electrician
I know you said it was furred out wall, but my first thought would be a masonry box with an extension ring to give me added depth for future expansion... and the ring to account for the furring strips/drywall and enable raceway connections. Other thought is a masonry box not fully set in the wall (i.e. extended out enough to catch the surface of the drywall, but that might violate 110.3(B) and you're probably better off with a fully set box + ext. ring.
 
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4x4dually

Senior Member
Location
Stillwater, OK
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I'd hardly call a brief tangent about AFCI's "thread derailment," nor would I ever laugh about the "derailment of dreams," but okay.

As for your OP, is there a reason no one has suggested masonry boxes? Or did I miss it somewhere in the thread? I've never done a "safe room" before. Are we avoiding that solution to keep the thickness of the walls in tact?
I don't think masonry boxes have been mentioned but I see them as more of a hassle for me if we were to use them. I have to push this desk during the day and will most likely not be present when the walls are poured. It seems easier to me to show up after the fact and install wiring and boxes than to be present when forming and setting the boxes and conduit in the forms and hoping nothing moves or goes wrong when they pour it.

I don't think wall thickness will be compromised since they are 8" thick. It just seems more of a hassle for me since I won't be onsite during the day and only wiring the place at night and weekends. I guess if they could place boxes and just stub them all up and out the top inside the form, maybe that wouldn't be so bad. I'm going to need a box and chase conduit for ethernet done that way as well.

Good food for thought, thanks.
 
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