Branch Circuit

Status
Not open for further replies.
RUWired said:
The box has to be located between the two units and the taps can only be long enough to allow the appliances to be removed. If the cooktop is in the island away from the oven, the rule doesn't apply.

Rick
Click to expand...

dana1028 said:
"but the location of the j-box is important" - agreed

"The box has to be located between the two units" - disagree - handbook makes such an assertion, but the NEC makes no such stipulation.

"If the cooktop is in the island away from the oven, the rule doesn't apply" - agreed.
Click to expand...

What is the problem with running to an island?
 
RUWired said:
I see it as the maximum run conductor is a 50 amp with a minimum 20 amp conductor. Article 210.23(C) and table 210.24 allow 40 and 50 amp circuits to be tapped with 12 awg.

Rick
Click to expand...
My point is: the branch circuit conductor from the source ( the source being the 50a ocpd--as required to meet the nec rule for the cooking appliance tap) must be sized based on the circuit breaker. So the 40a breaker is in violation, as well as the conductor size. Sounds to me that a few people believe that using a 40a breaker is fine, when code clearly states a 50a breaker is required to satisfy the tap rule. So, I have no idea why someone would think a number 8 nm-b would be fine to install from the source to the junction ( junction=tap location)
 
RUWired said:
The size of the two appliances would need to be known first. The oven and cooktop kw are added and treated as 1 appliance. If the kw is over 12 kw then the 40 amp circuit is to small. If under 12 kw, then the 40 amp circuit is good, but the location of the j-box is important. The box has to be located between the two units and the taps can only be long enough to allow the appliances to be removed. If the cooktop is in the island away from the oven, the rule doesn't apply.

Rick
Click to expand...
I agree that tge branch circuit load can be calculated using t. 220.55 ( note 4), but i disagree that a 40a breaker can be used.
 
RUWired said:
The size of the two appliances would need to be known first. The oven and cooktop kw are added and treated as 1 appliance. If the kw is over 12 kw then the 40 amp circuit is to small. If under 12 kw, then the 40 amp circuit is good, but the location of the j-box is important. The box has to be located between the two units and the taps can only be long enough to allow the appliances to be removed. If the cooktop is in the island away from the oven, the rule doesn't apply.

Rick
Click to expand...
I agree that the branch circuit load can be calculated using t. 220.55 ( note 4), But i disagree that a 40a breaker can be used.
 
Back to my initial post. I don't see where T.220.55 note 4 and 210.19(A)3 ex 1 agree--accept to say tapping is fine, if it doesn't include a range.
 
ActionDave said:
What is the problem with running to an island?
Click to expand...
dana1028 said:
"The box has to be located between the two units" - disagree - handbook makes such an assertion, but the NEC makes no such stipulation.
Click to expand...

Article 210.19(A)3 exception# 1 states "the taps shall be not longer than necessary for servicing the appliance". This would require the box to be located between the two units, or under the one, and or next to each other.
Rick
 
RUWired said:
Do you agree table 210.24 can be used for making taps on 40 amp circuits using 12 awg conductors?
Click to expand...
I agree T.210.24 allows a #12 tap, but what does the table have to do with a 50a breaker requirement to satisfy the cooking appliance tap?? Read my last.
 
RUWired said:
Article 210.19(A)3 exception# 1 states "the taps shall be not longer than necessary for servicing the appliance". This would require the box to be located between the two units, or under the one, and or next to each other.
Rick
Click to expand...

I'm just saying this does not require the tap point be located 'between' the 2 appliances, your other 2 examples would suffice.
 
RUWired said:
Article 210.19(A)3 exception# 1 states "the taps shall be not longer than necessary for servicing the appliance". This would require the box to be located between the two units, or under the one, and or next to each other.
Rick
Click to expand...
I don't think you are getting the picture of what I posted earlier. A 'tap' is a conductor that has overcurrent protection that is higher than its ampacity.

If you put a box under, behind or in adjacent space to an oven and connect a tap for the oven there and then run 50 amp conductor from that junction box to another junction box near the cooktop on other end of kitchen and tap the cooktop to that you are still compliant. Unless someone can point to where it says both appliance taps have to connect to the circuit conductors at the same point. I am pretty confident it does not say anything like this anywhere in the NEC.
 
kwired said:
I don't think you are getting the picture of what I posted earlier. A 'tap' is a conductor that has overcurrent protection that is higher than its ampacity.
Click to expand...
Maybe i'm not. I thought we were talking about taps. In your scenario, there are no taps(if connecting directly to the unit), unless the appliance has a whip. Then the whip would be a tap. But as long as the j-box was located as close to each unit it would be ok.
 
Last edited:
RUWired said:
Maybe i'm not. I thought we were talking about taps. In your scenario, there are no taps(if connecting directly to the unit), unless the appliance has a whip. Then the whip would be a tap. But as long as the j-box was located as close to each unit it would be ok.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I am talking about. If the conductors in the whip are only 12 AWG and connected to more than 20 amp circuit it is a tap.

Where does it say that both a cooktop and an oven or other similar installation have to tap at the same junction box? If you run 50 amp conductor from one junction box to the other, the taps are still only as long as necessary to connect the appliances. Appliances could be 100 feet apart and you still are OK.
 
kwired said:
That is exactly what I am talking about. If the conductors in the whip are only 12 AWG and connected to more than 20 amp circuit it is a tap.

Where does it say that both a cooktop and an oven or other similar installation have to tap at the same junction box? If you run 50 amp conductor from one junction box to the other, the taps are still only as long as necessary to connect the appliances. Appliances could be 100 feet apart and you still are OK.
Click to expand...

Your right, they don't, but like you said,the box needs to be under,next to or as close as possible to the appliance that the tap is made from. Your extending the 50 amp circuit to each appliance location, and then making the tap. That i see as OK.:happyyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top