Branch Panel Boards

[Alwayslearningelec]

Ok had a little discussion with a guy here at work about what is required material wise($$) when terminating branch circuits in a panel. He said you need markers, linen tags etc. I know it probably spec/NEC driven but does anyone have pictures of the interior of a terminated panel...showing the shaping pf wires, terminations etc. Thanks.

 

[infinity]

Here's a 400 amp, 2 section, feed-through panel. Just need some wire ties, a number book and patience.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Here's a 400 amp, 2 section, feed-through panel. Just need some wire ties, a number book and patience.

So what are the stickers/ markers(???) on the wire landing on the breakers? Thanks

 

[infinity]

So what are the stickers/ markers(???) on the wire landing on the breakers? Thanks

Something like this:

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=wire_marker_booklets&div=7&l1=wire_management

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Something like this:

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=wire_marker_booklets&div=7&l1=wire_management

So what do they identify? Are they NEC required? Panel schedules are always in the panel.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Something like this:

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=wire_marker_booklets&div=7&l1=wire_management

So what do they identify? Are they NEC required? Panel schedules are always in the panel

 

[cdslotz]

These are good things to know, but are you trying to included these items in your estimate?

 

[cowboyjwc]

You only need a panel schedule. Also don't use that panel as an example it looks like it violates 210.4(B)&(D).

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

These are good things to know, but are you trying to included these items in your estimate?

No not at all just curious as to what is done within the panels to as at as labeling marking etc besides Ty wraps, terms etc

 

[infinity]

Also don't use that panel as an example it looks like it violates 210.4(B)&(D).

Wouldn't that depend on when the panel was installed?

As far as I know there are no SP MWBC's in those panels. And for what it's worth the 2014 NEC will include a provision for using number tags on the conductors in lieu of a piece of tape around a MWBC.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Wouldn't that depend on when the panel was installed?

As far as I know there are no SP MWBC's in those panels. And for what it's worth the 2014 NEC will include a provision for using number tags on the conductors in lieu of a piece of tape around a MWBC.

Ok, isn't a MWBC two or more ungrounded conductors? So essentially a MWBC could not be on a single pole breaker

 

[cowboyjwc]

Wouldn't that depend on when the panel was installed?

As far as I know there are no SP MWBC's in those panels. And for what it's worth the 2014 NEC will include a provision for using number tags on the conductors in lieu of a piece of tape around a MWBC.

Yes it would matter when it was installed, but any time I see black and red and blue wires, I can usually be sure that theres a MWBC.

 

[infinity]

Yes it would matter when it was installed, but any time I see black and red and blue wires, I can usually be sure that theres a MWBC.

It's a little hard to tell from the photo but those blk/red combinations are on a two pole CB. Also this was installed under the 2005 NEC.

 

[tyha]

IDK maybe he pulled seperate neutrals. I commend you on your panel and wire bending skills. Most importantly on your extream patience. However, please take no offense to this, its not personal, but if you made a panel look like that while working for me you would be fired. Its like you took my money and through it right out the window to impress someone that knows nothing about electrical work. they just want everything pretty. I have heard the arguement a thousand times ( oh I can do that in the same amount you guys do a regular descent panel) and each and every time its BS. sorry.

 

[tyha]

To add to the previous post. if it states or has specific details in the slec book about how panels should be made up. we had one last year at Cisco systems. we have 1 or 2 men that do nothing but go from panel to panel " making them pretty" everything is there. All the wire s pulled, labeld. but this cost is picked up in the estimate and accounted for.

 

[jxofaltrds]

IDK maybe he pulled seperate neutrals. I commend you on your panel and wire bending skills. Most importantly on your extream patience. However, please take no offense to this, its not personal, but if you made a panel look like that while working for me you would be fired. Its like you took my money and through it right out the window to impress someone that knows nothing about electrical work. they just want everything pretty. I have heard the arguement a thousand times ( oh I can do that in the same amount you guys do a regular descent panel) and each and every time its BS. sorry.

You can not mass produce custom work.

Bet you would fire me also.

Sure your guys can do it slighty faster and that is fine. Some just care more (take more pride) about their work.

Nothing personal.

 

[infinity]

IDK maybe he pulled seperate neutrals. I commend you on your panel and wire bending skills. Most importantly on your extream patience. However, please take no offense to this, its not personal, but if you made a panel look like that while working for me you would be fired. Its like you took my money and through it right out the window to impress someone that knows nothing about electrical work. they just want everything pretty. I have heard the arguement a thousand times ( oh I can do that in the same amount you guys do a regular descent panel) and each and every time its BS. sorry.

Fortunately I work for people who expect nothing less than the work depicted in the photo. A skilled electrician can do a neat job almost as fast as a slob can do a sloppy job. In my world if your panels looked like a photo taken from a home inspectors forum you would get fired. You get what you pay for. :happyyes:

 

[cowboyjwc]

Yeah panel looks great, unless you're the maintenance guy that's got to go in there and cut off all of those stupid tie wraps. If you want the panle to look neat use solid wire.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Yeah panel looks great, unless you're the maintenance guy that's got to go in there and cut off all of those stupid tie wraps. If you want the panle to look neat use solid wire.

Why would he cut the ty wraps of. And do you mean to use solid wire as the ty wraps? Thanks

 

[cowboyjwc]

Why would he cut the ty wraps of. And do you mean to use solid wire as the ty wraps? Thanks

If you've ever work facilities maintenance you learn very quickly that you use existing conduits when you can, you use existing circuits to pull with, you sometimes find a circuit simply by tugging on it, you have to move circuits around in panels for various reasons or you simply need to know which conduit something is coming out of.

When you use stranded wire, the only way to get it to look like those pics is to use tie wraps. If you pull solid wire you can still make it look like that and and you don't have to bundle the wires all together. I've also know that a lot of guys that bundle their wire like that, pick on the west coast guys for using only one two inch KO to bring in all of their home runs in resi panels.