kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
That has to do with Covid and plant shutdowns putting production behind as well as possible increased demands from Hurricane ravaged areas more so than the topic of this thread.
Brazen, Shameless and Unapologetic AFCI Expansion
- Thread starter mbrooke
- Start date
- Status
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Is those included inside every AFCI device?
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
No, that is UL's 'simulator' , which they used to 'pass' afci's KwiredIs those included inside every AFCI device?
They use a piece of zipcord, introduce a small cut, wrap it w/flamable tape, and charge it with 5KV
the original nema-afci task force was split on this device, many quit, including Dr joe Engle (the chair) , but nema just hired more yes men.....
one can obtain the whole history here>>>>
~RJ~
You guys will love this. A member of the amateur radio club that I am also member of had a tract of homes go in behind his home on previously vacant pasture. They were mostly occupied and lit up pretty as a holiday picture when someone called him over the local repeater. He picked up his 5 Watt output portable radio and pressed the push to talk and all of those homes went suddenly dark. Every single AFCI in those homes tripped because insufficient Radio Frequency Immunity had been designed into them. He got his neighbors together and showed them the part 15 markings on the breaker packaging. "This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions: (1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation." He told them that the way to get their defective breakers replaced was to contact the Office of the Attorney General and raise hell but every single one of them would need to do it. The next Saturday the development had service vehicles from one of the areas largest electrical contractors changing out the breakers with ones received by overnight air freight. Don't you just love how safe those AFCI breakers made those folks?
--
Tom Horne
--
Tom Horne
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
I wouldn't have said a thing. Let them pull their hair out like we have to do. I probably would have hit the PTT button a few times a week too. Then go over and tell them the AFCI story and how they should get together and sue.
Then hit the PTT some more.
-Hal
Then hit the PTT some more.
-Hal
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
I'm seeing 15kv in your graphic?
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
Just goes to show you how much voltage is really needed...
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
yes, they literally had to change the laws of 'lectrical physics'.....~RJ~
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
which one can reveal themselves.....Bob H is an nfpa EE >>>
~RJ~
~RJ~
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
And redefine them it seems.
HalI wouldn't have said a thing. Let them pull their hair out like we have to do. I probably would have hit the PTT button a few times a week too. Then go over and tell them the AFCI story and how they should get together and sue.
Then hit the PTT some more.
-Hal
Has anybody ever accused you of having a mean streak?
--
Tom
mikeames
Senior Member
- Location
- Gaithersburg MD
- Occupation
- Teacher - Master Electrician - 2017 NEC
This is almost binary. If they work they should be expanded everywhere, but as he indicated the data does not show their impact. So they should not be required anywhere. They should be optional. Use GFCIs as an example. We know they work, the data shows they work and they have been rightfully expanded to every building type.
I beg to differ. The purported value of a GFCI is to protect against a shock. However the device cannot trip until conditions are present and a shock occurs. THEN it trips. Before then it’s an open circuit. No fire protection because that’s what the breaker does (shorts).
According to OSHA, the purpose of a GFCI is to “prevent an electrical incident” (meaning injury or death) not to prevent a shock or fire.
mikeames
Senior Member
- Location
- Gaithersburg MD
- Occupation
- Teacher - Master Electrician - 2017 NEC
I don't understand your post. What do you have issue with? That GFCIs don't work? I was not making a technical comparison. I was simply pointing out that there is a dispute over AFCIs not having an impact on safety yet their required use is being expanded. Contrast that to GFCIs which have also seen expansion yet their Impact on safety IS significant. The industry has no issue with GFCIs. We do question AFCIs. So what do you not agree with?
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
According to OSHA, the purpose of a GFCI is to “prevent an electrical incident” (meaning injury or death) not to prevent a shock or fire.
Hmmm, same site shows this:
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
Nahhh. You just need to rile em' up so they'll do something.
-Hal
Problem is people don't see the truth, at least not well enough. If they did, there wouldn't be a need to rile anyone up. The crowds in front of NFPA would go for a few miles.
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