Broken Mirror

[jrannis]

Normally I would have said this is on your dime, but I believe that the mirror was installed incorrectly, especially with the cutouts for known electrical devices.

If it was installed by the general contractor then you might have a harder time arguing fault. However, if is was installed by the glass supplier, then there is a reasonable expectation that they should have done it properly and will accept fault.

I am assuming a 54" x 80" mirror was 1/4" glass, so tightening a #6 or #8 screw would not have enough force to fracture this thick of glass on its own. The mirror was pre-stressed and was prone to breaking long before your installer touched it. There is no guarantee that you won't get the full blame for this, but a reputable glass installer would step up and take responsibility. This is definitely something you should be contesting, and I suggest you point out the strength of 1/4" glass as part of your process.

I agree, its a stress fracture. The mirror was not properly installed.
It would have cracked anyway

 

[e57]

Did anyone say to rant and rave and shove a gun in the GCs face and demand he sign a waiver?

Just have a section in your contract about it. If you don't, and the situation arises, then calmly inform the GC about your concerns. If he throws you off the job, then you don't need him as a customer anyway.

Exactly - contracts are about contracts... If questioned about it, just say its a boiler plate and you have reasons to have it in there. i.e. a poor glass installation should not be up to you to 'make due' or own if it blows up.... Go hire a glass guy - you bet he has simular language in his contract... The GC doesn't want to own it, and will point the finger at you, and the owner won't pay for it... So if you have something in your contract specifying the parameters of what you NEED to make make an installation work - then the GC doesn't sign off on it... And the glass guy does not get to 'slap and dash' with the opprotuminty to do it 2-3 times on your dime... (Because you don't know how to stand up for yourself...) GC passes on the spec - glass guy forced to comply for payment - you get a better install, and the situation avoids itself...

I would have camera ready and have them remove the broken one. If mastic is more than 6 inches from the hole i would blame them. Also be looking to see if the mastic made contact to both the drywall and mirror, if not the wall was bowed and mastic did no good.

Oh I agree - I would also note the glass thickness and the mastic thickness - if this was 1/4" on 3/8" blobs far from the light it was a set-up to fail IMO. There are quite a few mastic manuacturers - Some specify that it should get a blob the size of a ping-pong ball every sq' - that spreads out as the glass goes on, and spreads to ~4 1/2", 'ever square foot.... Leaving ~7 1/2" between the mastic, with a 4/0 opening leaves ~1 3/4" from the egde of the opening...

Another one suggests the use of a 1/8" notched trowel and achieve 60% coverage...

But everone I have ever seen broken had a few blobs neary 2' apart just to hold the mirror up-right resting on edge on a backsplash or clips...

I agree, its a stress fracture. The mirror was not properly installed.
It would have cracked anyway

Of course it was a stress fracture... How? Short of use of an impact gun to install the #8's to mount it, and/or a ground screw or other metal edge on the glass. Then the glass was not set up to have fixtures on it...

 

[RH1]

A 1/4" gap between the mirror and drywall is indicative of poor framing, the wall is obviously not flat. I would disagree with those who authoritatively declare the electrician to be responsible. This is not the fault of the electrician.

 

[Sierrasparky]

A 1/4" gap between the mirror and drywall is indicative of poor framing, the wall is obviously not flat. I would disagree with those who authoritatively declare the electrician to be responsible. This is not the fault of the electrician.

I agree thanks

 

[sfav8r]

Somewhat interesting update.

In the interest of keeping a very good GC who always pays on time happy, we agreed to work it out with the glass company and not put the GC in the middle. I spoke with the glass company and said I'd like to meet them there when they remove the old mirror. When I showed up at the agreed time, they already had the new mirror installed! Coincidence? You be the judge.

I looked at the old mirror and it was obvious that there was no support within 5-6" of the holes. I questioned this and they said "we never put mastic near the holes because it can seep to the edge of the glass and it shows in the reflection." I asked how they expected a light to be installed without cracking the glass if there is a 1/4" gap with no support. The said "I used to be an electrician and we always used spacers to avoid that." Even after I showed them that the glass was cut so tight to the box spacers wouldn't fit, they shrugged their shoulders and said "it just happens some times."

So now I'm looking for some "best practices" for glazing to show they should have provided support. The fact that they removed the old mirror and installed the new one before we got there has me pretty irritated, so I'm not just going to pay it so easily now.

 

[480sparky]

............So now I'm looking for some "best practices" for glazing ...........

Best practice.

 

[sfav8r]

Best practice.

480 - Best practices for GLAZING. IE:documentation that industry norms would dictate proper backing.

 

[e57]

Somewhat interesting update.

In the interest of keeping a very good GC who always pays on time happy, we agreed to work it out with the glass company and not put the GC in the middle. I spoke with the glass company and said I'd like to meet them there when they remove the old mirror. When I showed up at the agreed time, they already had the new mirror installed! Coincidence? You be the judge.

I looked at the old mirror and it was obvious that there was no support within 5-6" of the holes. I questioned this and they said "we never put mastic near the holes because it can seep to the edge of the glass and it shows in the reflection." I asked how they expected a light to be installed without cracking the glass if there is a 1/4" gap with no support. The said "I used to be an electrician and we always used spacers to avoid that." Even after I showed them that the glass was cut so tight to the box spacers wouldn't fit, they shrugged their shoulders and said "it just happens some times."

So now I'm looking for some "best practices" for glazing to show they should have provided support. The fact that they removed the old mirror and installed the new one before we got there has me pretty irritated, so I'm not just going to pay it so easily now.

No coincidence at all IMO. Nor will the next time it breaks.

I would have looked for the container of mastic - and it's instructions. As for it seeping to the edge - yes it will damage the face of the class if it bonds, but the canopy will also quite posiibly cover that.... Anyway they should be sealing the edges, and if the mastic seeps - it should be while they are there, and they can clean it. (rather than 1/2 assing the job and bolting with a check from the GC and then YOU.)

 

[rodneee]

broken mirror

broken mirror

we were working a single family 60 unit subdivison. one of the amenities the builder offered was the "deluxe master bath option". among the items included was wall to wall mirrors. this required 6 cutouts in the glass. it only took about 4 or 5 busted mirrors and 3 or 4 for jobsite meetings to convince the builders staff this was a design issue. what really made my point was when the cleaning service had one break on them. no more cheap mirrors or uneven walls and all is well. to this day the builders field staff and my people refer to this option as the "shatter bath upgrade".

 

[highvolts582]

when I was very green I had this happen to me. It cracked after I installed it owner got another no one was pissed guess I was lucky like I always am.