CA Electrician Certification Renewal UPDATE!!!!

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ibew441dc

ibew441dc

Senior Member
The DAS/DIR has done it again.......Recently on a similar but different thread, there was a discussion as to the ever changing requirements.

See if you can spot the significant change...
HINT Who can offer CEU's?:grin:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ECU_FAQ.htm#8

e57!!:smile::grin:, where are you? and what do ya think (short answer please:grin:)?

I think its hilarious:grin: I have already let the DAS/DIR know my two cents worth.
 
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ike5547

Senior Member
Location
Chico, CA
Occupation
Electrician
It went from this:
A: In addition to the entities (#1-3) mentioned below, any other entities can provide continuing education.
1) community colleges, public school districts, public educational institutions; or,
2)a state-licensed private post-secondary institutionunder contract with a community college, public school district, or public educational institution; or,
3) federal or state apprenticeship programs.
Click to expand...
To this:
Who may offer continuing education?
1) community colleges, public school districts, public educational institutions; or,
2) a state-licensed private post-secondary institution under contract with a community college, public school district, or public educational institution; or,
3) federal or state apprenticeship programs.
Click to expand...


I'm stunned. Line A is gone.



I was just getting my act together on this and they may have just pulled the rug out from under me.
 
ibew441dc

ibew441dc

Senior Member
ACEA is the solution!!!

ACEA is the solution!!!

ike5547 said:
I was just getting my act together on this and they may have just pulled the rug out from under me.
Click to expand...

You are not alone....I am going to start a group called ACEA to help the tormented.......Go ahead ask what is ACEA:grin:.
 
ibew441dc

ibew441dc

Senior Member
ike5547 said:
Err...What is ACEA?
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Well:wink:....I actually got to think'in and it originally stood for...

Abused California Electricians Anonymous... it would be great for the 40 thousand plus who have passed and are never really sure of what is going on, the state is trying to mess with our brains;).....maybe there trying to destroy electrical work:-????Conspiracy!!!:grin:

after some thought ....maybe it would be better to call it ...

:mad:Angry California Electricians Anonymous........:rolleyes::grin:
 
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ike5547

Senior Member
Location
Chico, CA
Occupation
Electrician
Okay, I did get a laugh out of that.

They should publish a list of providers that meet their requirements. Hopefully nothing too restrictive, or requiring membership in an association, organization, etc., or 50 miles away.

They are really leaving us in the dark here.

If not 'conspiracy' then maybe grossly inept or staggeringly incompetent.
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
ibew441dc said:
The DAS/DIR has done it again.......Recently on a similar but different thread, there was a discussion as to the ever changing requirements.

See if you can spot the significant change...
HINT Who can offer CEU's?:grin:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ECU_FAQ.htm#8

e57!!:smile::grin:, where are you? and what do ya think (short answer please:grin:)?

I think its hilarious:grin: I have already let the DAS/DIR know my two cents worth.
Click to expand...
I just spotted it as I was down-loading my form to send in - glad I have the right stuff to send...... Then I - NOT KIDDING - was looking for our previous debate and spotted this thread.

:rolleyes: Sooooo, you want a short answer?!?!? WHERE DO I (CENSORED) BEGIN!!!!



For those who are wondering what we're going on about:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=113391

But if you're really looking for my opinion on why it changed - and then changed back? The simple answer is CONTROL, and WHO is in CONTROL - etc. Without going into the who - which is now THEM. The original WHO lost out to another WHO - who felt it was better to not beat - but JOIN them in CONTROL. Control of what?????? Your access to the legally required education that YOU require to keep YOUR JOB in a tough economy. You PAY one of THEM, and pick a side of which you're gonna pay - one or the other. A or B.... Because it nearly impossible not to affiliate yourself with one or the other now - from the very beginning of the Electrical career, and all the way through the time you retire either as a worker, or as an Owner.... This is about control over access to labor, be it the Employee choosing A or B, or the Employer choosing A or B. I repeat - This is about control over access to labor, and screwing people out of their chosen profession if they screw up what-ever choice they make, then forcing them into slot A or B.

:wink:THAT IS WHAT THIS LAW WAS ABOUT FROM THE VERY BEGINING!:mad:

And THAT is why I was REALLY surprised that THEY were letting up on their death grip on CONTROL over your life and paycheck.... By letting just any 'ol shop-front, or fly by night operation or for that matter anyone else but THEM provide CEU's when they both fought each other tooth and nail for control over everything else.
 
ibew441dc

ibew441dc

Senior Member
e57 said:
I just spotted it as I was down-loading my form to send in - glad I have the right stuff to send...... Then I - NOT KIDDING - was looking for our previous debate and spotted this thread.

:rolleyes: Sooooo, you want a short answer?!?!? WHERE DO I (CENSORED) BEGIN!!!!



For those who are wondering what we're going on about:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=113391

But if you're really looking for my opinion on why it changed - and then changed back? The simple answer is CONTROL, and WHO is in CONTROL - etc. Without going into the who - which is now THEM. The original WHO lost out to another WHO - who felt it was better to not beat - but JOIN them in CONTROL. Control of what?????? Your access to the legally required education that YOU require to keep YOUR JOB in a tough economy. You PAY one of THEM, and pick a side of which you're gonna pay - one or the other. A or B.... Because it nearly impossible not to affiliate yourself with one or the other now - from the very beginning of the Electrical career, and all the way through the time you retire either as a worker, or as an Owner.... This is about control over access to labor, be it the Employee choosing A or B, or the Employer choosing A or B. I repeat - This is about control over access to labor, and screwing people out of their chosen profession if they screw up what-ever choice they make, then forcing them into slot A or B.

:wink:THAT IS WHAT THIS LAW WAS ABOUT FROM THE VERY BEGINING!:mad:

And THAT is why I was REALLY surprised that THEY were letting up on their death grip on CONTROL over your life and paycheck.... By letting just any 'ol shop-front, or fly by night operation or for that matter anyone else but THEM provide CEU's when they both fought each other tooth and nail for control over everything else.
Click to expand...


I just opened my eyes and poked my head out from under the covers:grin:...That was kinda short:wink:???.....but definitely to the point:smile:.
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
ibew441dc said:
:mad:Angry California Electricians Anonymous........:rolleyes::grin:
Click to expand...

I'll join.....;)

ike5547 said:
They should publish a list of providers that meet their requirements. Hopefully nothing too restrictive, or requiring membership in an association, organization, etc., or 50 miles away.
Click to expand...
They do.... (FYI - a law passed at the same time territorialized A & B so they can not be in the same geographical area.)

1) community colleges, public school districts, public educational institutions; or,
2) a state-licensed private post-secondary institution under contract with a community college, public school district, or public educational institution; or,
3) federal or state apprenticeship programs.
Click to expand...
  1. Really hard to find, and if you do - they're full.
  2. Lot easier to find - but hard to decipher what's what.... These are players in the market in the know. If you screw up and pck the wrong one - just do it again or get frustrated enough to go to option #3....
  3. Pick A or B.

    ike5547 said:
    They are really leaving us in the dark here.
    Click to expand...
    Darkness, silence, hidden regulations, consistent change and the obscenely vague agendas of corruption are their methods.
ike5547 said:
If not 'conspiracy' then maybe grossly inept or staggeringly incompetent.
Click to expand...

I would say all 3...
 
ibew441dc

ibew441dc

Senior Member
The following is copied from an email that I immediately sent to Luisa Martinez, the Electrician Certification Manager, Division of Apprenticeship Standards Electrician Certification Unit ........I know I left some other good places out but it wasn't intentional, I should have listed AVO, Tom Henry's stuff, Mark Shapiro's stuff ect. I didn't think of them until afterwords( I'm sure there's others also)

Luisa,
It appears the FAQ's on the DAS website have been changing regularly. Previously it stated any entity could provide continuing education, and is now limited. I see clearly why the "any entity" part would need to be cleaned up, but now appears to exclude excellent sources of continuing education/training such as:


Mike Holt Enterprises http://www.mikeholt.com/index.php?id=homegeneral
National Fire Protection Association http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/category.asp?category_name=Training+|+National+Electrical+Code&Page=1&src=fpw
International Association of Electrical Inspectors http://www.iaei.org/education/seminartopics.html
International Codes Council http://www2.iccsafe.org/Training_Education/Seminar/nbceu.cfm
Underwriters Laboratories http://www.uluniversity.us/Common/NCSResponse.aspx?RenderText=ContinuingEducation


Please consider the inclusion of a fourth option as I have suggested in the following italic text. The listed entities are directly related to the California electrical industry and it would be unfortunate to exclude any of them. I feel that clearly listing these entities will clear up any confusion in this matter. Also these entities do not exclude anyone based on political, union, non-union, or any other bias, other than that they are strictly electrically affiliated in nature.

"Who may offer continuing education?
1) community colleges, public school districts, public educational institutions; or,
2) a state-licensed private post-secondary institution under contract with a community college, public school district, or public educational institution; or,
3) federal or state apprenticeship programs"; or,
4) professionally recognized electrical entities, including: Mike Holt Enterprises, National Fire Protection Association, International Association of Electrical Inspectors, International Codes Council, Underwriters Laboratories, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, National Electrical Contractors Association, Associated Builders and Contractors, National Electrical Manufacturers Association, and Wyotech


Thank you very much for your time and consideration in this matter,

Danny Craft
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Local 441
Orange County Electrical Training Trust - Electrical Instructor
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She responded to me and stated that she would forward this to the Chief of the DAS.......we'll see what happens????

I recommend anyone that this may be of concern to, shoot an email to the DAS Electricians Certification Unit.
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
ibew441dc said:
She responded to me and stated that she would forward this to the Chief of the DAS.......we'll see what happens????

I recommend anyone that this may be of concern to, shoot an email to the DAS Electricians Certification Unit.
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You're talking about a dozen or so people who could not collectively answer a phone sitting in a room for 7 solid years. Who also had to report to the state legislature on how many electricians there were in the state and how this law would impact the trade. It took them 5 years to do that, and I'm sure they got it wrong both ways. My point being is that they are very slow in action. These people spent nearly 3 years debating an "Electrical Curriculum" to include in CEU's - it went nowhere. And since they have people who need this now after 6 years since they took the test who got 'extended' - they have a back-log that they don't know how to control all showing up at once with all kinds of wacky CEU's from all kinds of places they don't want. What better way to get rid of the back-log than throwing them all out.... And since they already have jokers of each of the represented tribes (each with their own pre-scheduled agenda) there to advise them already - what make you think that they'll take your advise?

IMO - you have better chances with writing the Govenator and having these fools removed. Or at least a talking to with a lawyer..... If you are being disenfranchised by this law - seek immediate legal representation to sue the State of California. Stack several of those into class action and there will finally start to be some results down there at the SF State Bldg. where the DAS is. So far - of the numerous court cases about this law, all have been of Community Colleges vs. CA DAS, ABC vs. CA DAS, etc.... And they got part ownership of the debacle and some say in the running of this mess... Now it is time for the rest of us to take ownership of this law....

This all started with Gray Davis getting votes for his recall from the IBEW - and he put them in charge of it then. (1999) He put the Fox in the Hen-house. Since then, other Foxes have battled for control through court and legislative tinkering, and now it is just many Foxes in the same hen-house. They can not be trusted to govern themselves in that position, and they need to be removed from it. It can not be democratized between both the Union, and the Merit leadership - it is a recipe for failure. It needs to be put squarely in the control of the CSLB (Consumer Protection) - who want ABSOLUTELY NO part of it! Because they - like anyone else who has followed this - know this law was never about safety - education - or betterment of the trade in any way. And if it stays in the control of either or both 'foxes' - it never will be.
 
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ike5547

Senior Member
Location
Chico, CA
Occupation
Electrician
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ibew441dc

ibew441dc

Senior Member
e57 said:
And since they already have jokers of each of the represented tribes (each with their own pre-scheduled agenda) there to advise them already
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This is the Electrician Certification Curriculum Committee, for those who don't know.

* Glen Forman - Acting Chief, DAS Chair, Electrician Certification Curriculum Committee
* Barry Noonan - Representing California Community Colleges
* John Dunn - Representing Department of Education
* Luisa Martinez - Senior Consultant, DAS

e57 said:
what make you think that they'll take your advise
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not sure they will??? they don't seem to be one for good ideas;)
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
ike5547 said:
They claim to be legit based on the following:

http://www.castatetest.com/continuededucation/stateDAS.pdf
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They had this same stuff on their website prior to the DAS saying "anyone" could provide continuing ed'. Then they removed it, and it seems they are putting this up to justify the DAS change in additude. When I was getting ready to do mine, I looked at this site, and the wording of why they thought they could offer CEU's did not sound all that confident, as in 'our parent company owns another company that has a contract with a state school - so that means we're good'.... So I passed them over, and was not going to go on what they think the DAS is thinking - as you can tell is conveluted....
 
I

ike5547

Senior Member
Location
Chico, CA
Occupation
Electrician
e57 said:
They had this same stuff on their website prior to the DAS saying "anyone" could provide continuing ed'. Then they removed it, and it seems they are putting this up to justify the DAS change in additude. When I was getting ready to do mine, I looked at this site, and the wording of why they thought they could offer CEU's did not sound all that confident, as in 'our parent company owns another company that has a contract with a state school - so that means we're good'.... So I passed them over, and was not going to go on what they think the DAS is thinking - as you can tell is conveluted....
Click to expand...

If you end up finding anything, please be sure and post it. I would be in your debt.

But, on such short notice, in place of nothing, it seems like it's all I've got to go on.
 
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ike5547

Senior Member
Location
Chico, CA
Occupation
Electrician
PS

I got word back from Belynda (mikeholt.com) that they cannot at this time provide for California. DAS has not sufficiently responded to their inquiries for them to make any guarantees.
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
ike5547 said:
If you end up finding anything, please be sure and post it. I would be in your debt.

But, on such short notice, in place of nothing, it seems like it's all I've got to go on.
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This post #1 from the other thread:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showpost.php?p=1045771&postcount=1
The link in the thread appears to be busted - since it apparently is linked to one of the emails I got the info in....

This is should it would take you. 32 hours in one package from Mike Holt - but through an Aprentice Program and approved ET provider

The Mike Holt class was not available when I started mine so I did this trouble shooting CD (it was program with 24 faults, mind numbing - but OK) and 8 hours from these courses. (Equally tetious) You finish each of them, and you can print a certificate - BUT IT IS NOT THE ONE THAT COUNTS! YOU HAVE TO GET THE ONES FROM WECA TO SEND TO THE DAS!!!!! They will send you a full transcript to send in to the DAS. I stuck mine in the mail box today to the DAS - it was painfull to write the check....

Also - I can NOT advocate these due to the high prices, but I know they will be accepted.

And of course you could contact the places listed here to see what they offer for CEU's.... http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ListOfApprovedSchoolsDetail.html
 
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