wbalsam1
Senior Member
- Location
- Upper Jay, NY
iwire said:IMO Once it gets within 2" of the surface and is outside the pour it can not by NEC definition still be a concrete encased electrode.
This statement is a FACT!
iwire said:IMO Once it gets within 2" of the surface and is outside the pour it can not by NEC definition still be a concrete encased electrode.
wbalsam1 said:This statement is a FACT!
electricmanscott said:While I agree with Bob on the issue at hand it really doesn't matter unless he divorces his computer and becomes an inspector. We know that's not happening.![]()
electricmanscott said:While I agree with Bob on the issue at hand it really doesn't matter unless he divorces his computer and becomes an inspector. We know that's not happening.![]()
wirebender said:So if you used 20' of 4 AWG copper as the CEE, the stub out wouldn't be considered part of the electrode? It would be the GEC? So, you would have to be sure and leave enough stubbed out to reach the service equipment and pray it is still there when you need it? Good Luck!
NO I think that the main reason for going to cees is that concrete is a conductor although a bad conductor when you apply ohms law to it and you have unlimited parallel paths touching ground with a couple of hundred tons holding it into direct contact with earth you have a better ground than a groundrod. It is as simple as that in my opinion. Havent you ever been hit kneeling on concrete??iwire said:I don't know, not as long as the building it serves.
But don't you think that was one of the big reasons for going to CEEs, they will last as long as the structure itself.![]()
After a week of captive entertainment by my step-in-laws - being married to mine doesn't seem like all that bad an idea. (Really I love my wife and her family - it's the other ones that gotta go.)electricmanscott said:While I agree with Bob on the issue at hand it really doesn't matter unless he divorces his computer and becomes an inspector. We know that's not happening.![]()
250.68 Grounding Electrode Conductor and Bonding Jumper Connection to Grounding Electrodes.
(A) Accessibility. The connection of a grounding electrode conductor or bonding jumper to a grounding electrode shall be accessible.
Exception: An encased or buried connection to a concrete-encased, driven, or buried grounding electrode shall not be required to be accessible.
If the exposed portion of an encased, driven, or buried electrode is used for the termination of a grounding electrode conductor, the terminations must be accessible. However, if the connection is buried or encased, terminations are not required to be accessible.~~
quogueelectric said:NO I think that the main reason for going to cees is that concrete is a conductor
tryinghard said:. This line of thinking is the same as a driven 8? rod that is to have its entire length in contact with earth, if a portion of this rod is accessible above ground or in a hand hole it is still referred to as an electrode yet legalistically its not unless its entire length is below ground.
iwire said:For those that do not know CEE is short for Concrete Encased Electrode.
In my opinion it is a NEC violation to stub the rebar out of the foundation for connection to the GEC.
The facts as I see them.
250.52(A)(3) defines what a CEE is. That description requires that the CEE be surrounded by at least 2" of concrete.
Given that definition the rebar that is stubbed out is not a CEE. It is simply a steel conductor attached to the the CEE so in reality the stubbed out section is a GEC.
250.62 prohibits using steel as a GEC.
In my opinion and due to 250.64(A) the only legal way to connect to a rebar CEE is with a copper conductor connected to the rebar in the area defined by 250.52(A)(3).
All you 'stubbers' are in violation of the NEC. :grin:
tryinghard said:250.52(A)(3) does not say the CEE electrode can be wire tied to equal 20'!
crossman said:My 2008 NEC does say that it can!
tryinghard said:2005 does not.
crossman said:That's strange! My 2005 NEC says you can!