Charging for estimates is not working!

[jrannis]

I think the frustration is now people are checking the prices of work really hard. Condos have to get three prices for the "board", etc.
I think screening the calls a little better would help your situation if you don't like the idea of a free estimate.
The next time you get s call that seems like a waste of time, ask the person what they honestly think the work is worth and what they are willing to pay.
You might be surprised.
I have asked people where I need to be to get the job and they flat out told me. Most of the time I work with them.
When you are on site for a new estimate, SELL THE JOB! If you don't, you are wasting your time.
Some people like a show, the more critical and educated the person is sometimes an advantage. Get out a screwdriver, open the panel, take pictures, lots of notes and close the deal.
If you really do estimates for a living it can be rewarding. If you are doing estimates and feel like you are getting screwed then you are.

 

[growler]

When you are talking about a free estimate what are you talking about? I have herd figures for a free estimate ranging from a $400 service call to a job with a one day profit of $6500.

For a job that going to run maybe $400 it's very hard to run out to the customer's house and spend any time giving an estimate. The way I figure it that job is nothing more than a service call and doesn't call for a free estimate or the wasting of a lot of time.

On the other hand if a customer is looking to spend thousands of dollars on repairs or additions then a free estimate or job bid may be the way to go because there is the potential to make money. It takes the same amount of time to look at a $5000 job as it does a $500 job but on the smaller job there is no way to cover the cost.

To go look at $500 jobs that the customer is only willing to pay $200 for is a waste of time. jrannis is right in that if a customer is willing to waste and hour or two of your time trying to save $50 then it's not going to be a winning situation.

 

[Rewire]

I see alot of talk about "time" which leads me to believe that alot of those in business are still thinking like hourly employees.I draw a weekly salary i don't work "by the job' or punch a time clock .I draw my salary weather a tap gets turned or not.My time is never "wasted" as it is paid for as a part of overhead.Everything I do in my business is geared toward growing my business even the "dry" well is an oppertunity to improve my salesmanship,drive my rolling billboard down the street and be the one they wished they would have hired first.

 

[emahler]

I see alot of talk about "time" which leads me to believe that alot of those in business are still thinking like hourly employees.I draw a weekly salary i don't work "by the job' or punch a time clock .I draw my salary weather a tap gets turned or not.My time is never "wasted" as it is paid for as a part of overhead.Everything I do in my business is geared toward growing my business even the "dry" well is an oppertunity to improve my salesmanship,drive my rolling billboard down the street and be the one they wished they would have hired first.

Its all about time. How much longer can your company continue to pay your salary, when your employees are painting your office?

I'm salaried as well, but if I'm not productive, no one is productive. You'll learn. Don't worry.

 

[Mule]

i'll work one day, i should clear about $6,500, but it'll be a long day, and
i'm gonna have to eat that hour and a half.

Im sure sorry you have to eat that hour and a half, maybe you could SOMEHOW manage to factor it into your profit, I know it will be a tight squeeze......

 

[Mule]

You'll learn. Don't worry.

Your attitude is sure to make you alot of happy customers in the future.....You have no respect for fellow man....

 

[Rewire]

Its all about time. How much longer can your company continue to pay your salary, when your employees are painting your office?

I'm salaried as well, but if I'm not productive, no one is productive. You'll learn. Don't worry.

I have about three months in reserve so if we don't bring in a dime we survive for that long then evryone is let go I slap on the tools and build it again.The office was scheduled for painting it was in the budget. So instead of hiring a painter I paid my first year apprentice.I have been in the trade thirty years I know from past expeirience Febuary is a slow month but we still get work which means I must still be productive. I never stop learning but I fear you have.

 

[Mule]

I have about three months in reserve so if we don't bring in a dime we survive for that long then evryone is let go I slap on the tools and build it again.The office was scheduled for painting it was in the budget. So instead of hiring a painter I paid my first year apprentice.I have been in the trade thirty years I know from past expeirience Febuary is a slow month but we still get work which means I must still be productive. I never stop learning but I fear you have.

There is a smart man....IMO

 

[Fulthrotl]

so for every job you do, you need to charge an extra 20% to cover the cost of the estimates.

works for me...

i'd rather talk to the customer over the phone, and give some general,
approximate generic costs to do something like say, a service change,
or recessed lighting, etc.

if they are just looking for a number so they will know that their brother
in law, who is really gonna do the work, isn't screwing them, it takes me
5 minutes, and i can afford that.

if they are still with me after 10 minutes, then the "estimate" call is really
gonna be a "pick up the deposit check so we can get started" call.

if i go over to give someone a price, and we haven't worked out all the
preliminary stuff over the phone, then *i* haven't done my part in properly
qualifying the customer, and that's my fault, not theirs. and only about
a quarter of the people are really ready to do something... the rest are
"thinking" about doing something.

 

[emahler]

Gentlemen. Good luck. And we wonder why, as an industry, we don't make as much as plumbers and hvac shops.

 

[Mule]

Gentlemen. Good luck. And we wonder why, as an industry, we don't make as much as plumbers and hvac shops.

The reason to me, is that HO's don't want to do plumbing its nasty, and they dont understand HVAC, but they THINK they are smart enough to do electrical because it looks so simple. I tell customers, it doesnt take alot of brains to make it work, but it take experience to make it safe. That is the reason our trade doesnt quite get the larger dollars IMO....thanks to Home Depot and Lowes....

But as codes get tougher,ie:AFCI, GFI, grounding bonding bla bla I think our wages will come up with the others..

 

[bradleyelectric]

The reason to me, is that HO's don't want to do plumbing its nasty, and they dont understand HVAC, but they THINK they are smart enough to do electrical because it looks so simple. I tell customers, it doesnt take alot of brains to make it work, but it take experience to make it safe. That is the reason our trade doesnt quite get the larger dollars IMO....thanks to Home Depot and Lowes....

But as codes get tougher,ie:AFCI, GFI, grounding bonding bla bla I think our wages will come up with the others..

People don't call me because they are going to do the work themselves. The reason we as an industry don't get the larger dollars is because we make excuses as to why we don't instead of making changes as to how we can.

 

[Mule]

People don't call me because they are going to do the work themselves. The reason we as an industry don't get the larger dollars is because we make excuses as to why we don't instead of making changes as to how we can.

Not a exuse on my part, just a opinion and observation...and in truth we charge all most the same as local plumbers and HVAC...However, that's why we do mostly commercial, I dont have to fuss with HO's and crawl in their attic and under with the spiders....

 

[bradleyelectric]

And it isn't hard for me to back up my opinion by rereading this thread.

 

[growler]

Gentlemen. Good luck. And we wonder why, as an industry, we don't make as much as plumbers and hvac shops.

It's a lot easier for every jack leg in the country to get into doing minor electrical repairs than for them to do plumblimg or HVAC work.

I know apartment maintenace men that repair HVAC and plumbing all day long on the job but don't do it as a side line. Almost everyone that knows which direction to twist a wire nut is out changing light fixtures or installing ceiling fans.The apartment, commercial, industrial, school, hotel, motel maintenance men and all the handymen are out there doing minor electrical repairs and installations. It's fast, it's easy and all they need is a six foot ladder and a few inexpensive tools and they make a little cash money under the table. Plumbing and HVAC require more of an investment in tools and equipment and they can get a little dirty.

I saw a house the other day where some jack leg had changed out the service cable and some other wiring and I'll bet that he didn't even have a cordless drill motor. There was no power at the house and you could tell that he didn't use any power tools. There were many screws that were not even in all the way and no new holes drilled. I doubt if he had any real idea of what he was doing but he did get paid for it.

 

[CopperTone]

if everyone charged $100 an hour per man then that would be great but everyone doesn't so others have a hard time doing that. If everyone charged for an estimate then that would be great but everyone doesn't so it is hard for others that do to charge.
I told a GC in the past that was complaining about our prices that you will always find someone cheaper - always - keep looking long enough and you will find the number you want to pay - always - same with homeowners.
Now the problem is the quality or work or reliability of the person, etc. for that cheapest price. Sometimes a guy is new in the business and is still learning what to charge and does great work or wants to get his foot in the door. you do what you gotta do and you can't do anything about that.

When I first started my business I used to get so pissed when I didn't get a job due to pricing - eventually you learn that there is not a lot you can do sometimes - move on to the next one - early on I had a customer who wanted me to give them a price to rewire the entire house but they hired a GC and I had to meet with him first. I knew off the bat I wasn't going to get the job because of the GC's attitude toward me but I did the whole estimate anyway - of course I didn't get the job - the GC's electrician did - all I did was drive the price down for the guy that did do the work.

Sell your service, company, and yourself for the price you need to make a profit and stay in business.
I charge estimates or as I call them "consultations" for real estate sales only with a credit back if we get the job - most times they just want the number for negotioations only.
When you have a lot of experience in estimating especially residential - it really doesn't take long to spit out an estimate anyway.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Just this morning my phone rang. It was a real estate agent saying he was sick and tired of the EC's here in town "breaking it off in him for the estimate cost". Asked if I could come and give him a price for a new 125 amp service. I tell him sure, it'll be a one hour minimum to come give him a price, and if I am chosen to do the work, I'll deduct that off the final price. He says the other EC's in town don't deduct the cost of the quote from the final price, they charge for everything they can get by with. I went and looked at it, gave him a price, pull permit Monday and will finish it up that same afternoon. He tells me he has around 25 other homes he needs a new service on, and said I can do them all

 

[tonyou812]

Just this morning my phone rang. It was a real estate agent saying he was sick and tired of the EC's here in town "breaking it off in him for the estimate cost". Asked if I could come and give him a price for a new 125 amp service. I tell him sure, it'll be a one hour minimum to come give him a price, and if I am chosen to do the work, I'll deduct that off the final price. He says the other EC's in town don't deduct the cost of the quote from the final price, they charge for everything they can get by with. I went and looked at it, gave him a price, pull permit Monday and will finish it up that same afternoon. He tells me he has around 25 other homes he needs a new service on, and said I can do them all

how does it feel to be the cheap guy in town?

 

[aline]

I can go to Best Buy, Circuit City (Used To) and another big box retailer in my area that sales tv's and get free estimates for buying a flat panel tv. It I want them to come out to my home and give me a price to have it installed all of them charge an in home consultation fee of a $100 that will be credited towards the job it they have you do the work.

A customer calls me after getting a quote to mount a flat panel tv from one of them and they tell her she will still need to have an electrician run power to the tv location. She also thought their price for installing the tv and the in-wall & in-ceiling surround sound speaker system was too high.

I go out and give a free estimate to do the work. She wants the price for the electrical work priced out seperately from the flat panel tv and surround sound installation. I don't know what price she got from the big box store but I know she already has $100 invested with them so I skew the numbers so that I price the electrical higher to give her a lower price for the flat panel tv and surround sound installation so I will hopefully be lower than the big box store for this so I can get all the work.

Turns out my price for installing the flat panel tv and the surround sound system was pretty much the same price as the big box store's price but if she went with me it would cost her more since she would lose the $100 in home consultation fee she had already paid. She called me the next week and said the big box store was going to deliver and install the tv and surround sound system and she just wanted me to come out and do the electrical.

I guess my point is that my price would have to be a $100 lower than theirs just to match their price since she already has $100 invested with them so I think a dispatch fee or in home consultation fee could work to your advantage.

It's funny how all the big box stores in my area charge the same $100 in home consultation fee. Do you think that maybe they know something we don't?

Sure you can visit their store for free after you paid for your gas, put miles on your car and spent at least an hour of your time driving there, looking around and driving back. You'll probably spend more time than this if you drive around to serveral stores to compare prices. And what do you usually find out? Unlike electrical contractors their prices are all pretty much the same price for the same item and you may save a few dollars for your trouble.

Same with buying a car. Sure you can drive all over town visiting car lots and talking with their saleman but I sure wouldn't consider it free. Unless of course you can get a friend to drive you in his car and pay for all the gas and you don't feel you time is worth anything.

I've said it before but I'll say it again. Your time is the most valuable thing you own. You only have so much of it and once you've used it it's gone and no amount of money in the world will buy it back. So the next time you're out running around giving free estimates you may want to keep that in mind.

 

[emahler]

I've said it before but I'll say it again. Your time is the most valuable thing you own. You only have so much of it and once you've used it it's gone and no amount of money in the world will buy it back. So the next time you're out running around giving free estimates you may want to keep that in mind.

nah...thats hourly wage thinking...i'm salaried, i get paid regardless...