Charging for estimates is not working!

[Mr. Wizard]

how does it feel to be the cheap guy in town?

I never revealed in my thread my cost for doing it, and I know I'm not the cheapest guy in town. I know that I don't have all the expenses that a huge shop would have, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to whore myself out just for some pocket change. This is not a hobby, this is how I make my living. I can tell you that I charged a fair price to do it, and according to the real estate agent there are many more to be done - by me, so I think I came out good in the deal.

 

[emahler]

I never revealed in my thread my cost for doing it, and I know I'm not the cheapest guy in town. I know that I don't have all the expenses that a huge shop would have, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to whore myself out just for some pocket change. This is not a hobby, this is how I make my living. I can tell you that I charged a fair price to do it, and according to the real estate agent there are many more to be done - by me, so I think I came out good in the deal.

what is your overhead per billable man hour? i'd bet it's more than that huge shop with all those expenses...

 

[tonyou812]

I never revealed in my thread my cost for doing it, and I know I'm not the cheapest guy in town. I know that I don't have all the expenses that a huge shop would have, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to whore myself out just for some pocket change. This is not a hobby, this is how I make my living. I can tell you that I charged a fair price to do it, and according to the real estate agent there are many more to be done - by me, so I think I came out good in the deal.

I just know how greedy and cheap real estate agents can be, thats all, It was more of a joke about being the cheap guy.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

nah...thats hourly wage thinking...i'm salaried, i get paid regardless...

How's that salary when you're working 80 hours a week and the lowest grunt on the totem pole is making more than you due to OT? I was salaried for several years, and would not do it again. I wish I could hire 10 guys and put them all on salary and work them from sunup to sundown. Ahhh, no more overtime costs, just a bunch of guys whose time is worth a set amount every week, no matter how many hours they work.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

what is your overhead per billable man hour? i'd bet it's more than that huge shop with all those expenses...

My service call rate, with all burden costs included, is around $75.00 an hour for a j-man, or a man that I can send on his own without any hand-holding. Less experience gets less pay. My bid rate is a little less than that, but not much. That number varies (not much) according to the job, the customer, and several other things. I'm not sure what the larger shops charge, but if I'm more expensive than they are and I still get the work, well, that's o.k. too.

 

[growler]

I can tell you that I charged a fair price to do it, and according to the real estate agent there are many more to be done - by me, so I think I came out good in the deal.

Do you have a signed contract and a check in your pocket?

Anything less is just speculation.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

I just know how greedy and cheap real estate agents can be, thats all, It was more of a joke about being the cheap guy.

I wasn't jumping at ya, tonyou812, you are right about real estate agents. They usually want something for nothing, and more often than not they take a while to pay. I'm hoping for the best with this guy, though. He seems to be pretty solid, or he may just be another shrewd snake-oil salesman.

 

[tonyou812]

Do you have a signed contract and a check in your pocket?

Anything less is just speculation.

no fooling. I wish i had a dollar everytime I thought the job was in the bag.

 

[emahler]

How's that salary when you're working 80 hours a week and the lowest grunt on the totem pole is making more than you due to OT? I was salaried for several years, and would not do it again. I wish I could hire 10 guys and put them all on salary and work them from sunup to sundown. Ahhh, no more overtime costs, just a bunch of guys whose time is worth a set amount every week, no matter how many hours they work.

you're preaching to the wrong fellow...

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Do you have a signed contract and a check in your pocket?

Anything less is just speculation.

For this first service changout, he wrote me a check for half the amount to get started. That was his mentioning, I usually require a percentage to get started, but I was surprised with half down. At this point, growler, it is just speculation. I'll do this first service for him, and see if he stays true to his word about the other services.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

you're preaching to the wrong fellow...

So we feel each others pain...

 

[ohm]

I tell these type customers right up front, "if your looking for the lowest price, Im not your guy"....when I say that, they usually soften up, and respect me a bit more I think. Once in a while they will bow up and bow out but rarely....and if they do, that's not the customers I want and I go on down the road.

And I've also told them on occassion when I learn they are getting multiple estimates. "Im sorry we dont play that game just so you can get the (low price), if you want references, I can supply you with them. And explain that most all of our customers are aquaintences or we have been recomended by someone. Most all resi jobs for us are either circuit additions and services. And all attics jobs are T/M end of story. We will not bid a attic. We do a lot of services and those are very repetitive and I can give a range estimates really quick.

Here's how I think....there are "x" amount of "demand" for EC's from customers, kinda like so many man/hrs of demand..... and there is "x" amount of EC's.... wich is the supply.... one of which is me. So its math to me..

So I figure if I turn down these type of jobs, they are going to tie up another EC getting it done anyway. So while that EC is busy with this "not so premium" customer, I'm available for the next premium customer when he calls, because the other EC is busy. This has paid off for me, cherry picking my customers and jobs, if you will.

Only thing I hate is when I get a customer in which we have been recomended from a regular client of ours., and its a job I really dont want. Doesnt happen all of the time but, I take it anyway ....to make my regular client happy. That's customer satisfaction IMO....I dont want to break that recomendation chain.

So with me, estimates are a range and they are free, they are scheduled on my convienence but they are free. I do some quotes but not many.....most all is T/M and I love it.....

Mule I'm with you 100%. I got a call from a friend last year to talk to his neighbor. Turned out the neighbor was building a new house but couldn't let me keep the drawings overnight because a third EC needed to look at them.

I told him I knew I wouldn't be the low bidder and handed the drawings back to him and visited a bit with my friend.

Well the house still has not started and I'm glad I spotted that one!

 

[peter d]

But as codes get tougher,ie:AFCI, GFI, grounding bonding bla bla I think our wages will come up with the others..

If you're banking on our wages coming up because of codes getting tougher, you're going to be waiting an awfully long time. I think when electrical contractors learn the fine art of salesmanship is when things are going to start improving.

 

[emahler]

My service call rate, with all burden costs included, is around $75.00 an hour for a j-man, or a man that I can send on his own without any hand-holding. Less experience gets less pay. My bid rate is a little less than that, but not much. That number varies (not much) according to the job, the customer, and several other things. I'm not sure what the larger shops charge, but if I'm more expensive than they are and I still get the work, well, that's o.k. too.

that's not what i asked...i asked what your OVERHEAD per billable man hour was....

i.e. I have $1000 in overhead per week (shop rent, gas, advertising, etc...everything not directly billable to a job)...and as a one man show, I get 30 billable hours in a 50 hour work week (this does not include office time, time getting material, call backs, etc)....so my overhead per billable man hour is $33.33...

now, i'm a 5 man shop with $2500/week in overhead...and each guy averages 33 hours billable a week...my overhead per billable man hour is only $15.15...

bigger shop, more overhead...but guess what, i can charge less and make more....

 

[Mr. Wizard]

that's not what i asked...i asked what your OVERHEAD per billable man hour was....

i.e. I have $1000 in overhead per week (shop rent, gas, advertising, etc...everything not directly billable to a job)...and as a one man show, I get 30 billable hours in a 50 hour work week (this does not include office time, time getting material, call backs, etc)....so my overhead per billable man hour is $33.33...

now, i'm a 5 man shop with $2500/week in overhead...and each guy averages 33 hours billable a week...my overhead per billable man hour is only $15.15...

bigger shop, more overhead...but guess what, i can charge less and make more....

Sorry 'bout he mis-communication there, emahler. My overhead per man hour is approximately $26, and I have two guys that help me when needed. They aren't full time, but when that time comes, my burden costs will hopefully go down - much like you mentioned in your response.

 

[growler]

For this first service changout, he wrote me a check for half the amount to get started. That was his mentioning, I usually require a percentage to get started, but I was surprised with half down. At this point, growler, it is just speculation. I'll do this first service for him, and see if he stays true to his word about the other services.

Sorry about my doubts, I have not had good experience with Real Estate people. If the guy is willing to pay half up front that does sound reasonable.

Good luck in the future on this project I really do hope it turns out well for you. I guess I'm just getting cynical these days with every rock that's turned over there is another crook or scam artist.

They say we have lost confidence in the system but not without a good reason. :wink:

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Good luck in the future on this project I really do hope it turns out well for you. I guess I'm just getting cynical these days with every rock that's turned over there is another crook or scam artist.

Thanks for the good luck blessing. It sure seems like there are alot of scammers out there, growler, you hit the nail on the head with that one. I've been duped a couple of times, and it ain't fun.

 

[aline]

I did a job for a guy last week who said he called three contractors to come out and give him an estimate for some work.

Contractor A (Me) charged a $29 dispatch fee to come out and the amount would be credited towards the work if he agreed to have me do it while there giving the estimate.

Contractor B charged a $59 disptach fee and it would not be credited towards the job at all.

Contractor C didn't charge anything to come out and give an estimate. (Free Estimate)

Guess which contractor left the homeowner sitting around all day waiting, never showed up and didn't even bother to call and say he wasn't going to make it? Guess which contractor called the next day to see if they could schedule another day to come out and give the (Free Estimate).

The homeowner said at first he was reluctant to pay a dispatch fee to get an estimate but after the free contractor didn't show up he had second thoughts. He figured if he was being charged for the estimate then the guy would probably show up. It also helps to have an on-time guarantee. If you don't show up at the time you agreed to you don't charge the dispatch fee for the estimate.

Some customers value their time and don't like sitting home all day waiting for someone to not show up. They realize their time isn't really free.

Guess which contractor was the only one who ended up looking at the job? Guess which contractor got the job?

 

[Mule]

I think when electrical contractors learn the fine art of salesmanship is when things are going to start improving.

excuse me, Im busy..... working....................

 

[Rewire]

I did a job for a guy last week who said he called three contractors to come out and give him an estimate for some work.

Contractor A (Me) charged a $29 dispatch fee to come out and the amount would be credited towards the work if he agreed to have me do it while there giving the estimate.

Contractor B charged a $59 disptach fee and it would not be credited towards the job at all.

Contractor C didn't charge anything to come out and give an estimate. (Free Estimate)

Guess which contractor left the homeowner sitting around all day waiting, never showed up and didn't even bother to call and say he wasn't going to make it? Guess which contractor called the next day to see if they could schedule another day to come out and give the (Free Estimate).

The homeowner said at first he was reluctant to pay a dispatch fee to get an estimate but after the free contractor didn't show up he had second thoughts. He figured if he was being charged for the estimate then the guy would probably show up. It also helps to have an on-time guarantee. If you don't show up at the time you agreed to you don't charge the dispatch fee for the estimate.

Some customers value their time and don't like sitting home all day waiting for someone to not show up. They realize their time isn't really free.

Guess which contractor was the only one who ended up looking at the job? Guess which contractor got the job?

Counting on the other guy not showing up is a bad business model.What happens in our area is one guy wants a dispatch fee and 100 other guys will come out for free one of them being me and I do show up on time.