If I remember correctly, that is a 10-24 thread. I think a trip to the hardware store and a green sharpie would have been better than what happened here.
Code compliant grounding electrode conductor?
- Thread starter Johnhall30
- Start date
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
That's a bunch on nonsense, if the GEC is landed in the meter base, that's all that is needed. It bonds to the neutral there and no further bonding is required.
10-32
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
Home Depot sells those replacement green screws. I had to bring a panel back because someone stole the screw out of it. Homer said they get that all the time. Apparently the inspector catches them on it, so they steal another because they threw away the one that came with the panel.
I know regular hex screws for bonding junction boxes are 10-32, but I think the panel bond screws are 10-24 or 12-24.
pipe_bender
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston
- Occupation
- Electrician
I have never seen a GEC landed at other than the service disconnect for a single family dwelling.
In my area with new residential construction) its a UFER rebar ground and if I am not mistaken all ufer connections are required to be 'accessible', if one pops up in a wall to be covered we leave a mudring on a stud by the ufer end connection so a blank cover can deem it accessible. The other end is accessible in the service panel. If it were sealed in a utility meter with these new seals they use my inspector might not see that as accessible.
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
Unless the seal is non-reversible (you have to cut it) and you consider the seal part of the "building finish" (I wouldn't), it would meet the Article 100 definition of "accessible." 250.24(A)(1) requires the GEC connection to the grounded service conductor to be at an accessible location, so certainly these POCOs that require a connection in their meter must view that as an accessible location.
Cheers, Wayne
It is almost always up to the utility whether they allow it or whether they require it. If they allow it but the inspector forbids it, then it can't go in the meter. But if the utility requires it at the meter, the inspector has no choice but to allow it.
pipe_bender
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston
- Occupation
- Electrician
If I had to call the POCO to unlock it or cut the lock my AHJ would have no hesitation red-tagging sticking it to the POCO.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Why would you need access to the GEC after the install?
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Why would the inspector not allow it? It's permissible anywhere from the weatherhead down to the service panel. In the meter base is part of that path.
Because the tagged meter base may be considered inaccessible.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
It's as accessible as a ground rod with the acorn clamp grade driven below grade.
All the inspectors here laugh at the POCO that won't allow it in the meter.
Cool. I agree that it is best at the meter, or even at the weatherhead. But I've seen both POCOs and inspectors that don't allow it.
pipe_bender
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston
- Occupation
- Electrician
Different code section applies Wayne stated its "250.24(A)(1) requires the GEC connection to the grounded service conductor to be at an accessible location". Ground clamps are not the connection to the grounded service conductor and can be listed for direct burial.
Its the OP is saying the utility is requiring it:
I say if it is a violation, as its open to interpretation, but sure seems like it. So if you go along with me and say AHJ say it is a violation, which it would be here. A Utility can not just decide to 'over rule' the NEC and require a code violation?, Perhaps unless the utility is also the AHJ in the town? Does NEC not 'start' well before a meter ? start at the OH splices ? So not their jurisdiction article 90 right?
Jaybone812
Senior Member
- Location
- South shore. Massachusetts-2023 NEC
- Occupation
- Commercial & Residential Electrician
It’s not required to be readily accessible just accessible and it’s definitely accessible in a tagged meter base, a tool removes the tag and you have access
OK. I'll let you take it up with the AHJs who disagree. Rarely do I encounter a utility that allows the connection in there anyway.
pipe_bender
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston
- Occupation
- Electrician
If the proof of access must be proven at a normal inspection if not inspection it fails, tool is not present and the owner cannot tamper with the meter I don't see how it would fly.
An inspector challenged me on something much more accessible, it was a 12X12 pull box (several actually) that ended up too close to the drop ceiling grid, I had to open it with him standing there to prove it was accessible, and sure enough I broke the ceiling tile, he insisted on a access panel.
Jaybone812
Senior Member
- Location
- South shore. Massachusetts-2023 NEC
- Occupation
- Commercial & Residential Electrician
Idk how it would not be accessible at the time of inspection, since poco will not come out and tag/energize a service until it’s been signed off by a electrical inspector
And according to the nec defined term that GEC is most definitely accessible in that meter whether it’s tagged or not now it’s another thing if the poco in your area prohibits the gec in that meter, but other than that or local amendment thst doesn’t allow it , it’s permitted by the nec
pipe_bender
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston
- Occupation
- Electrician
Where in mass do you see a GEC in a meter? I just never have seen it and it seems dumb.
On final inspection inspector checks that after the building is finished things are accessible.
Why do they check I have a 2 gang mud ring and a blank where the ufer clamp is it if its concealed in a wall?
When do they check my pull box is accessible ? final inspection
So it can be accessed.
And for final inspection I need the power on.