Code enforcement

[FionaZuppa]

And there we have it. Proof positive of fuzzy thinking.

ah geez, do you wish to discuss the GFI types (UL classes)?


interesting read (benefits and summary sections, and the main part too)
https://www.nema.org/Products/Documents/NEMA-GFCI-2012-Field-Representative-Presentation.pdf

 

[FionaZuppa]

ah geez, do you wish to discuss the GFI types (UL classes)?


http://www.csemag.com/single-article/ul-s-new-gfci-classes/89c8746cdc4a7fd8a3cb93f1d51ba57a.html

interesting read (benefits and summary sections, and the main part too)
https://www.nema.org/Products/Documents/NEMA-GFCI-2012-Field-Representative-Presentation.pdf

added in link for UL info. can you spot some diffs between UL and NEMA when it comes to testing ??

Its GFCI.

whats the diff please, me patiently waiting. this will likely end up like the how its confusing to some that a "square" is just a special type of rectangle, they are all rectangles. so when your 4yr old in his/her geometry section of math is asked by teacher "what is this shape" and the shape is a square, best for little johnny or sara to teach the teacher something, "that is a rectangle".

 

[K8MHZ]

ah geez, do you wish to discuss the GFI types (UL classes)?


interesting read (benefits and summary sections, and the main part too)
https://www.nema.org/Products/Documents/NEMA-GFCI-2012-Field-Representative-Presentation.pdf

There is not one single bit of information about GFI types in your links.

A GFI is a ground fault detection device intended to protect wiring and equipment, NOT personnel.

A GFCI is a ground fault detection device intended to protect personnel.

BIG difference.

 

[K8MHZ]

ya think its "safe" to be energized at 120Vac.

It can be.

I can hold a 'tick' tracer in one hand and touch a live 120 volt hot conductor with the other. The 'tick' tracer will beep just like it was touching the hot wire in my other hand, several feet away.

When it is not safe is when the body is placed between the hot conductor and the source of the current, and a properly connected EGC goes back to that source. So, I am totally safe being energized at 120 volts until I come in contact with either the EGC, the neutral and in last place, the earth.

 

[iwire]

added in link for UL info. can you spot some diffs between UL and NEMA when it comes to testing ??

Could not be bothered to look, it does not concern me in the least.

And what exactly does that have to do with the OPs predicament?

whats the diff please, me patiently waiting. this will likely end up like the how its confusing to some that a "square" is just a special type of rectangle, they are all rectangles. so when your 4yr old in his/her geometry section of math is asked by teacher "what is this shape" and the shape is a square, best for little johnny or sara to teach the teacher something, "that is a rectangle".

OK you asked.

You appear to want to be taken seriously on this forum, you have a million opinions and feel everyone of them should be incorporated into the NEC but at the same time you don't even know the language of the NEC, UL or NEMA. It makes it hard to take you seriously.

 

[FionaZuppa]

So, I am totally safe being energized at 120 volts until I come in contact with either the EGC, the neutral and in last place, the earth.

its called a hazard waiting to become an incident.

by your logic hot wires in the walls are just fine, until they start a fire.

the NEC is written to avoid hazards.

 

[FionaZuppa]

There is not one single bit of information about GFI types in your links.

A GFI is a ground fault detection device intended to protect wiring and equipment, NOT personnel.

A GFCI is a ground fault detection device intended to protect personnel.

BIG difference.

hmmm, i thought GFPE's and EGFPD's were for equipment.
sorry folks, they are all GFI's, what make/model/type/class you choose to install depends on the application, they are all GFI's.

 

[peter d]

Could not be bothered to look, it does not concern me in the least.

And what exactly does that have to do with the OPs predicament?





OK you asked.

You appear to want to be taken seriously on this forum, you have a million opinions and feel everyone of them should be incorporated into the NEC but at the same time you don't even know the language of the NEC, UL or NEMA. It makes it hard to take you seriously.

Spot on. :thumbsup:

 

[dkidd]

hmmm, i thought GFPE's and EGFPD's were for equipment.
sorry folks, they are all GFI's, what make/model/type/class you choose to install depends on the application, they are all GFI's.

”If you can’t be right, be wrong at the top of your voice”
Lucy van Pelt

 

[K8MHZ]

hmmm, i thought GFPE's and EGFPD's were for equipment.
sorry folks, they are all GFI's, what make/model/type/class you choose to install depends on the application, they are all GFI's.

That isn't the point, for one thing, 'GFI' is a trade term, not an NEC term.

and btw, "GFI" "GFCI", same thing folks.

The point you are missing is that a GFCI is a particular type of device defined by the NEC to protect personnel. GFCI is not synonymous with GFI, even though it is easier to say.

This thread is about GFCI (as defined in article 100) protection, not GFI, GFPE or EGFPD's.

A 'GFI' is not intended to protect personnel unless it is a GFCI.

 

[FionaZuppa]

”If you can’t be right, be wrong at the top of your voice”
Lucy van Pelt

happy to hear you know the quotes of Peanuts characters.

how about listing the definitions and the source it comes from. i patiently waiting.

 

[K8MHZ]

its called a hazard waiting to become an incident.

by your logic hot wires in the walls are just fine, until they start a fire.

the NEC is written to avoid hazards.

Look again, the code is meant for 'practical safeguarding'. The difference is subtle, but nonetheless important.

 

[dkidd]

happy to hear you know the quotes of Peanuts characters.

how about listing the definitions and the source it comes from. i patiently waiting.

A GFCI is a device whose function is to interrupt the electric circuit to
the load when a fault current to ground exceeds some predetermined
value that is less than that

UL White Book.

Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI). A device intended
for the protection of personnel that functions to deenergize
a circuit or portion thereof within an established
period of time when a current to ground exceeds the values
established for a Class A device.
NFPA 70

 

[FionaZuppa]

T

A 'GFI' is not intended to protect personnel unless it is a GFCI.

ok, semantics of types of GFI's, no?

There is no difference between the terns GFCI and GFI. The latter is just a lazy slang version of the GFCI. The NEC does not even contain the term GFI.

You are correct that GFI and GFCI are the same; however, unlike GFPE-which protects equipment, GFCI protects people.

 

[GoldDigger]

But the UL standard for GFCI also specifies what that threshold must be for each class of GFCI.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[K8MHZ]

But the UL standard for GFCI also specifies what that threshold must be for each class of GFCI.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

And the NEC does not, but DOES specify that in order to be considered a GFCI, it must be for the protection of personnel.

 

[FionaZuppa]

But the UL standard for GFCI also specifies what that threshold must be for each class of GFCI.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

yes, class C 20mA is an allowable GF"C"I depending on the wiring or circuit and equipment

 

[K8MHZ]

ok, semantics of types of GFI's, no?

No. Specifics. A GFCI serves to protect people. There are also devices that may be called GFI's that serve to protect equipment which are not GFCI's.

 

[FionaZuppa]

No. Specifics. A GFCI serves to protect people. There are also devices that may be called GFI's that serve to protect equipment which are not GFCI's.

surely yes, i guess you can say, a GFCI is just a special GFI, just like a square is a special rectangles, yet all the GF"x"I's are GFI's, and every square is a rectangle

 

[K8MHZ]

yes, class C 20mA is an allowable GF"C"I depending on the wiring or circuit and equipment

Are Class C GFCI's allowed in residences by the standards?