- Location
- Massachusetts
I think you missed my sarcasm or maybe I am missing yours.
Personally I would like to see the size of the NEC decrease not increase.
Common practice for well casings?
- Thread starter TimWA
- Start date
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I think you missed my sarcasm or maybe I am missing yours.
Personally I would like to see the size of the NEC decrease not increase.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Bob, that was not the question I asked you, and Kwire has no clue.
I think you missed my sarcasm or maybe I am missing yours.
Personally I would like to see the size of the NEC decrease not increase.
I think if the NFPA printed the NEC in two sections, that would be a decrease in a sense. I did miss your direction of humor. Sorry about that.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Well Dave, The question asked had to do with wiring and not whether there was a controller at the seal or cap integral with the pump. Maybe everyone thinks that this is inherent to most deep submersibles, but it isn't.
I have at least a dozen 2-wires that were set over 30 years ago and are still active at 160 to 225' deep. But that is not what the question is about. I do not think caps are a problem and as far as economics some one is paying too much for their installs.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
I've worked on a lot of pumps where the relay and/or the cap was in the pump. Most get replaced with a new pump.
I have also have daily visits from people coming into the shop wanting a capacitor for their well pump checked. I tell them "I'll give you good news if I have it, but most likely your problem is not a bad capacitor."
What is your point?
I have also have daily visits from people coming into the shop wanting a capacitor for their well pump checked. I tell them "I'll give you good news if I have it, but most likely your problem is not a bad capacitor."
What is your point?
I agree on the cap answer you just commented on, and supports the point that most installers do not know the limits of a 2-wire setup and why a 3-wire is necessary. A code requirement would avoid this common mistake on private installations. Taking cap maintenance out of the equation from the original question is the point being made for helping electricians understand the inside economics and code for installing well pumps.
The question I asked Bob was not answered. The comments on how many pumps were set with 3-wire was a bogus response. The point being, there are a lot of electricians with answers that cost clients a lot more for excess consumption and what they should pay out for a professional job.
Anyone that does not know why the difference for using a 3-wire at a certain point needs to inquire why. Improving deep well code parameters will reduce waste in the industry just as Title 24 is doing for the present green economy. In Washington State, a well drilling and pump installation capacity usage certification is tightly controlled for water conservation. That is the point.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Ben: okay, why?
I don't have a clue where you are going with this, and don't appreciate all the suspense (mixed with the condescension). I like learning new things, no need to make it painful.
I don't have a clue where you are going with this, and don't appreciate all the suspense (mixed with the condescension). I like learning new things, no need to make it painful.
The answer is motor pump size. Two wire can only go up to 2.5 hp and used as a limiting factor for certain aquafir draw down requirements.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Wait a second - if your actual sentiment is "When is it better to place the cap remotely" (which is not what you said) then I have two observations. One, I generally don't have control over that. Two, I am indeed ignorant of an electrical reason to put the cap in the well.
I have replaced a cap in several wells, I'd tend to prefer an above ground one. I'd be curious as to why having it in the well would be better.
(Edit to add: I was writing this as you posted the previous.)
I have replaced a cap in several wells, I'd tend to prefer an above ground one. I'd be curious as to why having it in the well would be better.
(Edit to add: I was writing this as you posted the previous.)
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The question of a cap being put anywhere is the issue. Have you ever noticed the size for a 3hp submersible and why it needs a cap in the starter up at the controller? The core for a two wire 3hp cap in the pump housing wouldn't fit. The cap location is not a factor of better.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
So what does designing or selecting a motor that doesn't need a capacitor have to do with needing a section in the code dedicated to submersible pumps. That is not what the NEC is about. Selecting the motor to be used is almost never the electricians decision in these installs.
I do not disagree that it may be possible to design a pump that doesn't need a capacitor. The larger the HP needed, the more challanging that becomes. We do have three wire motors with no capacitors - they are either connected to Monodrives or are three phase.
I do not disagree that it may be possible to design a pump that doesn't need a capacitor. The larger the HP needed, the more challanging that becomes. We do have three wire motors with no capacitors - they are either connected to Monodrives or are three phase.
- Location
- Massachusetts
But what in the world does that have to do with the NEC and having a special section for pumps?
Design a new motor? Monodrives and three phase for residential? Let's stop the conversation at this point. Never seen a GFCI for a well motor circuit? Check out [680.51(A)] and [682.33(B)] Thanks for playing. Moderator....hit the button.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I could see the GFCI for 680 and 682 applications - have never been involved with one. We are probably not talking about same thing as for domestic water - although same or similar equipment could be used.
Monodrives and three phase are a little pricey for typical dwelling and size of pump typically used with these is often larger than typical dwelling needs.
That changes when the well feeds the whole farm and not just the house, so yes I see these things frequently.
Apparently you know a lot yet do not wish to share what you know and would rather just tell everyone else they don't know.
I don't like being told 'you are wrong' - but then the only substantiation for it is - 'because I say so'. If you have something that will educate us then by all means share it we are here to learn.
noname87
Member
- Location
- Iredell County, NC
In my case, I had a 405' a 6" well drilled last week set 25' from the house. The casing is unscreened steel and is 64' set 10' into rock. The pump is 3/4 set at 240'. The electrical supply is 12/2. The water supply is PEX.
This thread seems to indicte that this casing needs to be bonded to the ground wire of the 12/2. Coreect? If so what is the best way to accomplish this?
This thread seems to indicte that this casing needs to be bonded to the ground wire of the 12/2. Coreect? If so what is the best way to accomplish this?
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
I just drill the well casing and bolt on a lug...
Thats what I see on most installations.
(too often after it has been rejected for not being grounded)
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
Too be honest, I leave it up to the well installer, They pull the permit, install the pump, install the wire into the house, Im not about to go out and check if they bonded the casing, thats between them and the inspector, but I can tell you this, i've never seen one bonded, as a side note, they are usually hacks at the little electrical part they do install.... Im not even sure if they can legitimately do the installs they do... just seems so be common practice around here...
Which brings me to one more question, is well pump cable even listed for anywhere but a well casing?
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