Complex Lighting

[gar]

221205-1105 EST

Therealcrt:

I will try to teach you something about logical circuit design using GE RR relays.

The RR relay is a bistable SPST switch controlled by two coils. One coil performs the SET function, closing the SPST. The other coil performs the RESET function, opening the SPST bistable contact. So the RR relay is the same as an ordinary SPST toggle switch, except it is electrically operated, whereas the ordinary toggle switch requires finger actuation. The RR has two separate stable states that only require momentary actuation to change state. The RR is electrically controlled, whereas the toggle switch requires your finger at the switch location to change state.

With the RR relay I can have many SPST-NO momentary switches in parallel in different locations control the ON state of the relay. The same for the OFF function. And the particular lights controlled by a particular switch can be different for ON and OFF.

With appropriate logical circuits I can have one low voltage switch control many relays. This means I can have individual switches control a single circuit or have have a single switch control many circuits. Both types of control can simultaneously exist. Time clock signals can be at the low voltage level, and ON and OFF control can be different. For example ON of all lights could occur at some time, and OFF might require manual control.

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[Amps]

I will start from the beginning. I have a bank of switches at the front of the store that are consisted of dimmer switches to control the lighting in the main store area. Each dimmer will be its own circuit because each switch will control more than 15 lights. In the back of the store near the panel is going to be a timeclock that will turn off and on all the lights at desired time. And also right at the store main entrance is where they want the override switch that will turn off and on ALL the lights at any given time

What is the voltage?

 

[Amps]

If it's 120 volts use Leviton Smart Dimmers and the Leviton App.

 

[synchro]

As brantmacga described in his post #27, a rotary dial timer could be used to override the timeclock and force all the lights to be ON. Such a timer would ensure that an ON override eventually "times out" and allows the timeclock to resume control.

The OP mentioned that he also wants an override that forces all of the lights to be OFF. Just using a SPST switch in series with the contactor coil would do this, but it would have the problem Larry mentioned that such an OFF override approach could inadvertently be left activated and disable a desired timeclock control of the lights. Now a single pole relay and SPDT switch could be used to allow the timer to provide both an OFF override and an ON override with limited durations. But I can't see much of a "use case" for a timed OFF override, although this would clearly be useful for an ON override (although it would ultimately be up to the customer).

I think a better alternative for an OFF override control would be to place one pole of a double-pole switch in series with the timeclock output. Then have the second pole of this switch activate a green pilot light when the first pole is connecting the timeclock output to the coil and allowing it to control the light. Alternatively, if a DPDT switch was used the second pole could select between lighting either a green or a red light pilot light. This would give the user a clear indication of the status of an OFF override, because otherwise the user might think that all of the lights are OFF because of the timeclock, but it's actually because of an OFF override.

The OFF override switch could be placed before or after the point where a rotary dial timer connects to the contactor coil switch leg, depending on which override you want to have precedence.

 

[Therealcrt]

I have 2 lighting circuits that need to be controlled by the same switch and that switch is simply a single pole switch, so would I need a contactor

 

[LarryFine]

Yes, or a 2p switch.

 

[Therealcrt]

ok but here’s the scenario, there are 8 lighting circuits that are on a timeclock, and also all individually switched. So my home runs will go to the two 4 pole contacts, then off the contacts to the switches then from the switches up to my lights. For the 2 circuits that will be switched from one switch do I need a 2nd contact somewhere after the first contact and before the switch?

 

[LarryFine]

If you want the other two to operate the same way as the eight, then yes, you'll need two additional home runs to an additional 2-pole contactor, also powered by the time clock (if so desired).

You could use a 1p switch wired after the time clock to control the additional contactor instead of directly switching the two circuits with the 2p switch I suggested.

You get that contactors have sets of contacts, right? Just want to make sure you know the difference.

 

[Little Bill]

I moved post here as to not cause confusion.

 

[Amps]

What about a system from Intermatic? Artisa by Intermatic

 

[gar]

221213-1010 EST

There have been no recent comments. So this post is to try to get you to think about circuits in some broad ways. I do not expect you to use GE RR relays, but they are useful for my discussion, and they are a switching device that I have many of, approaching 50, in my home.

An ordinary SPST two stable state mechanical toggle switch requires no input power to remain in either state. Its input to change state is a lever operated by a person at the location of the switch.

A GE RR relay is the same thing except its state change is accomplished by two electro-mechanical coils that only require an electrical pulse to one or the other of the two coils, a SET and a RESET coil. By momentary pulses the state of the relay can be changed or not changed, and no sustained power to the relay is required to maintain its last state. So functionally this is exactly the same as the mechanical SPST switch. Except here electrical wires connect to actuate the switch state, and much more complex control circuits can control the relay from many different locations with momentary signals.

If instead you directly use switch contacts in some combinatorial fashion to accomplish some switching function, then each of these switches has to be in one of two fixed states to define your output state ( light ON or OFF ). You may not be able to accomplish a desired goal with such a circuit.

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