Copper clad

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david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
Someone ask me are we running out of copper.

"
How when it keeps getting stolen and turned in for scrap.

How quickly pex replaced copper water lines

I can see whole houses beeing wired with copper clad after electricians get used to it

Now there telling everyone to keep your ac units well lighted at night because that's becoming the next big thing to be stolen for the copper

It won't be long until we see copper clad alum grounding electrode conductors

Drug addiction is changing our world and now they want to start young children off on vape and legal pot

It won't be copper we run out of it will be alum
 
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david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
The more rare copper becomes, the more inviting things like ac units become for scrap

Who would of thought a few years back that alum would become the wiring methods for these smaller gage wires.

I hope it proves to be as safe as copper. All we can do is trust ul and others
 
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Other than big feeders, I haven’t seen any move to aluminum. As for the drug issue, it is getting worse. My wife and I was at the grocery store last night, and a young woman started flipping out. Her young son started crying, and she had a baby in the cart. She looked so young, I thought her son was her younger brother, as she was playing with him right before she flipped out. The paramedics had to restrain her to the gurney to take her to the hospital. Sad.
 
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AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
Copper clad sucks. Box fill is what killed it from me using it.
So I have to run next size bigger compared to copper now I can’t branch off like I want.
The savings in material does not out way the extra labor for more jumbers.

Now if it was half the cost of copper ! Maybe but 15-20% less not worth it.
As far as copper theft. Hope you live some were, that goes after criminals and does not award them. I am screwed on that case lol
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
AC\DC said:
Copper clad sucks. Box fill is what killed it from me using it.
So I have to run next size bigger compared to copper now I can’t branch off like I want.
The savings in material does not out way the extra labor for more jumbers.

Now if it was half the cost of copper ! Maybe but 15-20% less not worth it.
As far as copper theft. Hope you live some were, that goes after criminals and does not award them. I am screwed on that case lol
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Good to know regarding the cost. For that little savings I think that your choice of not using copper-clad is valid.
 
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Eddie702

Licensed Electrician
Location
Western Massachusetts
Occupation
Electrician
retirede said:
Meth-head copper thieves aren’t going to realize it’s CCA until they try to sell it. By then, the damage has been done.
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Your right. They either can't read or won't take the time to read the printing on the jacket. That would be way too much to expect.

I wonder how much CC will be scrapped as copper before the scrap yards catch on.

I saw pictures on the news of thieves cutting the refrigerant lines and stealing condensing units.
 
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david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
zbang said:
Um, citation please, that above makes absolutely no sense, seems rather political, and isn't relevant to "copper clad".
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Don't want it to be political, the fact is you don't run alum. To ground rods.

But I imagine copper clad alum will be allowed.

I can walk you down an alley where every grounding electrode conductor leaving the building to bond to the ground rods where cut off.

Alum has less value per pound and takes a lot more of it to make a pound

Once copper clad alum makes a impact into the market and it's less likely to be of value it won't be long until it's n0t worth the risk of stealing.

Once your copper water lines are stolen from your house, your going to replace them with something that is less inviting or has no value to be stolen.

Copper clad alum is going to have a similar impact on the market

You might even post sign outside stating all my wiring is alum.

You can't even put an odd in a bulliton here to rent your house, because you take the risk of letting the wrong people know your house is empty.

The scrap value of copper clad alum will have a big impact for landlords on what wiring method do you want copper do you want copper clad alum.

No they won't take the time to read the cable but the first cable the cut to steal they are going to say oh crap it's not worth stealing

Theft of copper is becoming a real problem, and copper clad alum is going to have an impact on that problem
 
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AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
zbang said:
Um, citation please, that above makes absolutely no sense, seems rather political, and isn't relevant to "copper clad".
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Makes perfect sense. I live in a pot state. I grew up around pot. My dad has a farm and a store. I use to be a major pot head. WHY because I was around it and saw it as the norm. What you normalize will be the norm.

Look at case study of rapist. Majority were raped.
Some have will power to overcome but some like me are easily swayed.
 
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david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
Eddie702 said:
When you cut copper clad it looks like copper, they won't be smart enough to look at the end.
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A lot of stolen copper is burned to get the insulation off, hopefully the alum won't hold up very well to that kind of heat.

Maybe it will have to be stripped by hand, if so they will have to work a bit harder to get there money from stolen alum.

I know it's hit and run theft for the most money. Been in a lot of basements where all the copper water pipes and copper wiring is gone, but the alum range and dryer branch circuits were left.

If copper clad becomes the wiring mythod most use, the opposite of what I was thinking might happen. More house might have to be broken into to make up the profit margin

In 10 years we may see very little copper verses copper clad we don't know which way this is going to go.

You might say no I'm comfortable with copper and I'm sticking with it.

We will see what happens when you keep losing bids to guys willing to use alum
 
Fred B

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
retirede said:
Meth-head copper thieves aren’t going to realize it’s CCA until they try to sell it. By then, the damage has been done.
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Seen that they have been for the POCO wiring that they are making and using a copper clad Steel cable to try to deter the theft of the copper wire to the grounding grids. Not sure if it is making it to the NEC wiring anytime soon.
 
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david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
Eddie702 said:
I saw pictures on the news of thieves cutting the refrigerant lines and stealing condensing uniunits
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I saw that on the news, warning people to keep thec area of your ac units well lit.

Kind of made me mad, it also told those stealing copper if you haven't thought about it here's another resource you can steal your copper from.

And by they way there is this pull out disconnect right next to the unit you can safely just pull it cut the wire to the unit right here

Bring a hand cart for a faster get away. Expect the refrigerant to spray out when you cut those copper lines.

And target ones in less lighted areas of the home.

It was a pretty good training video and it also said you could do all this in 5 min or less
 
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