Copper clad

[norcal]

The more rare copper becomes, the more inviting things like ac units become for scrap

Who would of thought a few years back that alum would become the wiring methods for these smaller gage wires.

I hope it proves to be as safe as copper. All we can do is trust ul and others

Trust UL? No way their lack of standards with the original AL NM cable is what led to that mess.

 

[kwired]

Someone ask me are we running out of copper.

"
How when it keeps getting stolen and turned in for scrap.

How quickly pex replaced copper water lines

I can see whole houses beeing wired with copper clad after electricians get used to it

Now there telling everyone to keep your ac units well lighted at night because that's becoming the next big thing to be stolen for the copper

It won't be long until we see copper clad alum grounding electrode conductors

Drug addiction is changing our world and now they want to start young children off on vape and legal pot

It won't be copper we run out of it will be alum

Supply and demand thing if you ask me, as well as additional costs depending on how much is imported vs domestic production.

How much is still out there to be mined and how easily it can be mined - I have no idea. There is always some amount being taken out of service (not by thieves) that can be recycled as well.

But if there is still decent amount waiting to be mined then like other resources prices can vary simply because of production levels along with factoring in demand levels. This to some degree lets the producers control the market pricing just by changing production levels.

 

[Ken_S]

Look at case study of rapist. Majority were raped.

Citation?

 

[Speedskater]

Why is it so easy for thieves to sell scrap copper?

 

[AC\DC]

Why is it so easy for thieves to sell scrap copper?

Well the harder you make for the minority. It affects the majority more.
Gun laws affect law abiding citizens more than the criminals. Since criminals will just get it illegally.
Meth heads will find a way to sell it no matter what you do.

 

[PaulMmn]

Someone ask me are we running out of copper.

. . .

How quickly pex replaced copper water lines

Copper replaced threaded steel pipe-- with a torch and solder, you replace the bulky threading machine, and the need for a pipe fitter.
Pex is replacing copper, because with a crimper you keep the torch out of the building, and avoid a lot of joints and their potential to leak.

It's the savings in cost to install that drives these changes.

 

[electrofelon]

It won't be long until we see copper clad alum grounding electrode conductors

I don't see anything wrong with that. IMO they should just be Galvanized steel, there is no technical reason to have any certain "low" resistance on your grounding electrode conductor. These big copper grounding electrode conductors are just a big waste of resources and serve no purpose.

 

[electrofelon]

Makes perfect sense. I live in a pot state. I grew up around pot. My dad has a farm and a store. I use to be a major pot head. WHY because I was around it and saw it as the norm. What you normalize will be the norm.

So where do you draw the line? What about alcohol, should the government make that illegal again? What about junk food? I don't want the government, or other people, deciding for me what I can do with my body, or what plants I can't grow.

 

[Eddie702]

The last time I scrapped a little copper a month or so ago it was like $3.69/lb

 

[AC\DC]

So where do you draw the line? What about alcohol, should the government make that illegal again? What about junk food? I don't want the government, or other people, deciding for me what I can do with my body, or what plants I can't grow.

I get you. I understand both ways. I dont know.
It’s up to society.
For your example. I like it but it need to go further. Make everything legal. But no government assistance.
If you want to do something go right ahead but don’t make that decision affect my life. Taxes- harming my family- harming my community. Ect

What you do at home keep at home society has a norm to function properly otherwise we get chaos.

 

[electrofelon]

I get you. I understand both ways. I dont know.
It’s up to society.
For your example. I like it but it need to go further. Make everything legal. But no government assistance.
If you want to do something go right ahead but don’t make that decision affect my life. Taxes- harming my family- harming my community. Ect

What you do at home keep at home society has a norm to function properly otherwise we get chaos.

And I get you too. There is definitely validity to the normalization stuff. I guess I put more importance on personal freedoms overall.

 

[electrofelon]

The last time I scrapped a little copper a month or so ago it was like $3.69/lb

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'd like to see a graph on the inflation adjusted price of copper. My gut feeling is it's not particularly high at the moment.

 

[retirede]

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'd like to see a graph on the inflation adjusted price of copper. My gut feeling is it's not particularly high at the moment.

As long as they can sell what they steal in one night and cover their meth bill, it’s high enough.

 

[electrofelon]

As long as they can sell what they steal in one night and cover their meth bill, it’s high enough.

You don't think they put a little aside to put in a CD or maybe their Roth IRA?

 

[david]

I don't know if C copper clad alm because of the the scrap value will be stolen less or just need more of it.

There were some legitimate things mentioned like using 10 gage on a 20 amp rec.
Or a switch. All I know for sure we are going to see it come into the marketplace, how strong who knows.

E electricians will adjust to 10 amp circuits or what ever changes come with 14,12,10 awg copper clad alum

My brother after his copper was stolen from is house he replaced is water line with cpvc and pvc, pex had not made a big impact in to construction at the time.

I'm glad he didn't walk in on them when they were stealing the copper

When I pull up in some areas the folks living there tell you to leave your car unlocked, at least the won't mash your window to get in and go through your stuff.

Don't want this to get polical, but electricians work with copper and that's what is being stolen, when you get called to rewire someone's basement because someone ripped all the copper out, you feel bad, can't work for free and these poor folks are living month to month.

I think they say it's like 60% of the households in the US have less than $2'000 in there savings to fall back on.

Can't really afford the unexpected expense of replacing an ac unit or rewiring a basement

If your the ones with the klines or channel lock tools your going to be in the middle of it

Had to say channel lock they are made in PA

 

[AC\DC]

It’s been in the market for a while. I tried it about 2 years ago it sucks.
The over sizing of conductor limits it a lot

 

[Birken Vogt]

I am curious how well a 10 awg wraps a terminal screw. It seems like devices are made to hold 12 awg max.

 

[letgomywago]

I am curious how well a 10 awg wraps a terminal screw. It seems like devices are made to hold 12 awg max.

Most of the 12awg-10awg rated devices I've seen use clamps not just wrap around screws. Some do have screws but the nice ones have the clamps.

 

[letgomywago]

If we went to more copper clad aluminum romex the places it'd shine are.

Cans and wafer lights if listed for it. there's just so much wire in modern houses for this

Home runs which I see no issue with

3 way 3 wire if we go to 10a lighting

Smoke alarms if we go to 10a circuits

And finally roping bedrooms on 15a circuits with 12awg.

The amount of extra thinking just to save 200 bucks in wire I don't see as being worth it. But if you were wiring up a large multifamily then things change. 75k in wire vs 100k in wiring isn't something to scoff at even if it means you need to pay for an expensive employee to realy watch the quality of the install and I'd insist on pigtailing all receptacles in thus situation too.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Most of the 12awg-10awg rated devices I've seen use clamps not just wrap around screws. Some do have screws but the nice ones have the clamps.

Those don't sound like the kind of devices you would see in the typical lower budget home that gets CCA wired.