Copper clad

[kwired]

So where do you draw the line? What about alcohol, should the government make that illegal again? What about junk food? I don't want the government, or other people, deciding for me what I can do with my body, or what plants I can't grow.

Or how you should construct your home

 

[kwired]

The last time I scrapped a little copper a month or so ago it was like $3.69/lb

What grade of copper?

 

[kwired]

Those don't sound like the kind of devices you would see in the typical lower budget home that gets CCA wired.

If you are going with CCA for lower budget reasons you also need to consider costs of device that will accept the larger conductors, larger volume boxes to accept larger conductors and/or additional splicing methods, or if you run more circuits because of lesser ampacity now you are going to use more AFCI's and maybe more GFCI's.

 

[Birken Vogt]

If you are going with CCA for lower budget reasons you also need to consider costs of device that will accept the larger conductors, larger volume boxes to accept larger conductors and/or additional splicing methods, or if you run more circuits because of lesser ampacity now you are going to use more AFCI's and maybe more GFCI's.

What other reason would you run CCA?

All the actual examples I saw on the internet were typical large company builders that squeeze every penny types, not exactly garbage housing but just large builders with sharp pencils.

 

[curt swartz]

CCA is not a new thing. They tried pushing it in the 70's but it didn't catch on.

As of now I believe there is only 1 manufacture of CCA building wire and they also are the only manufacture of twist-on connectors listed for CCA.

Apparently Southwire, Cerro and Encore are not betting on CCA taking over or they would be pushing it. Ideal and 3M are not worried about lost sales of their connectors or they would be getting their connectors listed for CCA.

As stated in earlier posts above the targets for CCA are the multi-unit/tract guys that are working on very small margins.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

CCA is not a new thing. They tried pushing it in the 70's but it didn't catch on.

As of now I believe there is only 1 manufacture of CCA building wire and they also are the only manufacture of twist-on connectors listed for CCA.

Apparently Southwire, Cerro and Encore are not betting on CCA taking over or they would be pushing it. Ideal and 3M are not worried about lost sales of their connectors or they would be getting their connectors listed for CCA.

As stated in earlier posts above the targets for CCA are the multi-unit/tract guys that are working on very small margins.

Copper-weld is using a rebranded wire nut with no physical changes...the only difference is they had their rebranded wire nut tested for

 

[Eddie702]

What grade of copper?

#2

 

[Eddie702]

I have a scrap piece of CC that I found at my sister's house that I keep for a novelty. Thought it was copper till I read the jacket.

Can't take as much twisting as copper it will break.

And #10 CC is rated 25 amps which 25-amp breakers are not always as readily available. So yeah you would still have to use #10 CC for a 20 amp circuit.

Box fill would be an issue

 

[kwired]

What other reason would you run CCA?

All the actual examples I saw on the internet were typical large company builders that squeeze every penny types, not exactly garbage housing but just large builders with sharp pencils.

Well presumably they analyzed the things I mentioned and still considered the CCA to be worthwhile. They also probably run 15 amp circuits everywhere code permits it, I seldom run 15 amp circuits to receptacles period, but on new construction I typically run receptacles for multiple bedrooms on a 20 amp circuit and since LED lighting became the norm might run an entire floor or almost the entire floor lighting outlets on one 15 amp circuit. Less home run lengths of conductors, less AFCI breakers than putting one bedroom on one 15 amp circuit like seems to be pretty common thing to do. Maybe it doesn't matter much installation cost wise, but I still like the performance of a 20 amp circuit over a 15 for general use receptacles. Something like a vacuum cleaner isn't going to mess with lighting it isn't on the circuit with the lights.

 

[letgomywago]

I have a scrap piece of CC that I found at my sister's house that I keep for a novelty. Thought it was copper till I read the jacket.

Can't take as much twisting as copper it will break.

And #10 CC is rated 25 amps which 25-amp breakers are not always as readily available. So yeah you would still have to use #10 CC for a 20 amp circuit.

Box fill would be an issue

I use 25a 2poles often but for AC and minisplits and WH. For general receptacles and lighting it'll always be limited to 20a. If it was 10awg CU it would still be limited to 20a

 

[retirede]

Theft prevention

 

[david]

Theft prevention

not wanting to take any chance

 

[david]

I live 30 min from butler regional hospital tonight,
Can't express any additional thoughts on that without breaking rules here.
Our thoughts are on butler tonight

 

[TBsmd4]

Copper clad aluminum has been in the NEC since 1971. It is UL listed and meets all the same UL Standards that copper wire does. It does not break easily, despite all the stories you hear third hand. Copper thieves learn quickly that there is very little scrap value and learn not to steal it from areas where it is in use. The NEC does not require that wire nuts be listed, although Copperweld does sell a listed wire nut for those AHJ's that insist on a listed connector. It is sized like aluminum and terminates like copper. Box fill is usually only an issue with multi gang boxes, and it is easily avoided if you know what to look for. Devices readily accept it, and #10 wire is OK per Article 110.14(A). It was used in some areas in the 70's, but went away when copper prices bottomed out. It is making a comeback because of high copper prices. There are a lot of misperceptions about it because it is thought of as a new product. We are all use to copper, and wonder how anything could be better. "Better" is in the eye of the beholder. Look at the Copperweld web site to learn more. It's an American company making copper clad building wire. Copper clad complements copper and can't be used everywhere, but it's certainly worth knowing more about.

 

[Eddie702]

Theft prevention

That is assuming they can read.

 

[Eddie702]

Copper clad aluminum has been in the NEC since 1971. It is UL listed and meets all the same UL Standards that copper wire does. It does not break easily, despite all the stories you hear third hand. Copper thieves learn quickly that there is very little scrap value and learn not to steal it from areas where it is in use. The NEC does not require that wire nuts be listed, although Copperweld does sell a listed wire nut for those AHJ's that insist on a listed connector. It is sized like aluminum and terminates like copper. Box fill is usually only an issue with multi gang boxes, and it is easily avoided if you know what to look for. Devices readily accept it, and #10 wire is OK per Article 110.14(A). It was used in some areas in the 70's, but went away when copper prices bottomed out. It is making a comeback because of high copper prices. There are a lot of misperceptions about it because it is thought of as a new product. We are all use to copper, and wonder how anything could be better. "Better" is in the eye of the beholder. Look at the Copperweld web site to learn more. It's an American company making copper clad building wire. Copper clad complements copper and can't be used everywhere, but it's certainly worth knowing more about.

If you used to twisting wires before terminating to wire nuts (as mot do) it breaks more easily than copper

 

[TBsmd4]

If you used to twisting wires before terminating to wire nuts (as mot do) it breaks more easily than copper

That’s a common misconception. Almost all brands of wire nut has “not necessary to pretwist conductors” on the packaging. Like most of us electricians, I never bothered to read the wire nut instructions.
Modern copper clad doesn’t break unless you score it when you strip it, or if you over tighten it. Copper does the same.
The copper clad from the 70’s might have been more prone to breaking, but modern technology has changed that. We use it every day and the only time I’ve seen it break was when it wasn’t stripped correctly. It takes awhile to get used to working with a bigger wire gauge - #12 instead of #14, for example.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I think I agree with most of what you have said.

I am interested in the breadth of your experience with this stuff.

What kind of work has you working with it these days? What kind of employer do you work for and where and why do they get it?

 

[TBsmd4]

I am a retired electrical contractor from Texas. I am familiar with copper clad because I moved to Tennessee and still wanted to work, I just didn’t want the stress of ownership. I became a Supt for a large residential electrical contractor. I was, like most electricians, pretty skeptical of anything aluminum. I’m old enough to know about the horrors of the old aluminum wire. I have been working with copper clad for awhile now, and can’t say enough about its benefits. Terminations are cooler because of the larger wire gauge, it’s lighter weight, costs less, and my electricians aren’t spending time gathering up scrap copper. I’m told it’s only sold directly and not through distributors. We actually have fewer warranty calls because you can’t backstab the conductors (#12 is 15 amps and you can’t backstab #12 anymore). AFCI nuisance trips are few and far between now.
Can you tell I’m a fan? lol.

 

[Birken Vogt]

There is a small to moderate amount of discussion about it, but besides you nobody who seems to work with it regularly. So it is good to hear your opinion.

Do you use CCA as romex only, or in any other form (THHN, MC etc.)?

When you wire a house do you use the same size breakers with larger wire, or do you make more circuits 15 amp to use the same size wire? Electric water heater on 25A 10 AWG CCA?