mstrlucky74
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
Very sorry..couldnt capture the entire pic....totals were far below on screen...just add up each row total for material and labor
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CU vs AL
- Thread starter mstrlucky74
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hard to believe
Cu $12/ft $12.150.69/1000'
http://www.southwire.com/documents/Import_01022018_C.pdf dated 1.2.2018
this is the mfgs price TO the supply house
they are selling at a 60% loss?
http://www.southwire.com/ordering/PriceSheetIndex.htm
they get a 4 digit multiplier range 0.9000 to 0.9999 depending on qty and annual volume
and you are getting retail for less than $4.50?
that sounds like the Al price
Cu and Al are commodities and their price is hard to discount
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- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I'm too lazy to bother and since you have them you're too lazy to post them. :lol:
mstrlucky74
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
Lol...i will see post when I get home.I'm too lazy to bother and since you have them you're too lazy to post them.
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mstrlucky74
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
Just calculated totals on fly...thinks it's close
Alum- material $4700 labor 158 hours
Copper - material $11500 labor 123 hours
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Alum- material $4700 labor 158 hours
Copper - material $11500 labor 123 hours
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electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
I am not sure what those price sheets are, but those prices on the sheet are way off.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
it's an interesting thread for me to follow, as none of the attachments the OP
apparently has included show for me viewing in chrome or firefox.
35 hours difference in labor? on the same run? going up a size adds that much?
the problem, as i see it, is that i don't see it, having no raw data.
and for that, i'm grateful.
the real problem is, that you are convinced that copper and aluminum are the same
cost installed. under those circumstances, please put in the copper. you don't
need our input.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
I dont buy big copper much so I dont have any prices handy on that, but big orange says 4.59 for 4/0 CU. But just a few quotes from recently I had on hand for AL:
250 AL XHHW .75'
750 AL 1.98'
350 AL THHN colors 1.05
As you can see those sheets are way way off
250 AL XHHW .75'
750 AL 1.98'
350 AL THHN colors 1.05
As you can see those sheets are way way off
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
I do if they think that aluminum needs nolox or some other elaborate ritual to terminate as many falsely believe. But I ask the same question- who or what is estimating?
mstrlucky74
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
What labor units are you questioning or saying are out of whack?
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to be even (11500 - 4700) / (158 -123) = $195/hr at cost labor rate
I've followed this thread and found it quite interesting.
Slightly different take.
The comparison of Cu and Al - it just doesn't happen here in UK.
Everything is geared to Cu conductors. Lugs, markers, sleeving, cable glands, terminals.....
We made electrical panels, mostly VSDs with conductors up to 240mm^2 (about 500MCM). All copper conductors.
I've looked in a couple of our main supplier's catalogues and neither lists Al cable.
I'm at a loss to explain why if Al can potentially show a commercial advantage.
Slightly different take.
The comparison of Cu and Al - it just doesn't happen here in UK.
Everything is geared to Cu conductors. Lugs, markers, sleeving, cable glands, terminals.....
We made electrical panels, mostly VSDs with conductors up to 240mm^2 (about 500MCM). All copper conductors.
I've looked in a couple of our main supplier's catalogues and neither lists Al cable.
I'm at a loss to explain why if Al can potentially show a commercial advantage.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Copper industry lobbying, or maybe also the historic problems with the original introduction of Al wiring without proper attention to the effect of the alloy on termination conditions?
Cu wires are also smaller if you are wiring in a tight space, like embedded in slots in a wall covering.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Remember, we are talking about conduit and single conductor, not multi conductor armored cable.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
Besoeker, view it as saving copper
We size cable based on a mostly fixed table and loads of other conservative rules. In short we love using lots of metal. Using AL helps conserve a limited resource for the smaller circuits.The wiring internal to our panels was single core run in slotted trunking to keep it neat and tidy. No real space constraints.
Externally, yes it was multi-core SWA. But there is nothing to prevent either being in Al if that had been a more commercially advantageous option.
The why remains.
I don't mean to derail the thread but it seems a reasonable point to make.
Just to widen the topic a little further, I've worked on commissioning projects in many parts of the world. I can't honestly recall Al cables being used on any of them.
It's a puzzler for me.
Besoeker, view it as saving copper
We generally base it on the cable tables in BS7671, "The Regs".
These tables also cover ratings for Al cables so I'm sure they do get used sometimes.
The only time I've seen aluminium used for conductors was for the output bars on high current rectifiers.
These were in the 10kA to 70kA systems we did. Cable tables didn't cover that.......
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