Current on Grounded Conductor

[mivey]

He says "if it had current on it people would be getting shocked and possibly killed everytime they touched a meter, panel, etc.

Having little or no voltage is not the same as having little or no current. That seems to be one of his misunderstandings. Earth is our standard zero voltage reference but there is plenty of current in the earth.

A bird on a wire is at the same voltage as the wire thus it "reads" zero voltage. Still plenty of current there in the wire.

He seems to have his own theory that electrons get excited and alternate directions just on the ungrounded conductor.

By thinking of only one conductor, he is thinking the circuit is like a single piston oscillating back and forth to deliver energy. Instead, an AC circuit is more like a belt on a pully that is the mechanism for energy exchange: both sides of the belt (grounded and ungrounded) move. While they normally move in one direction, you could also have a motor/belt/pully mechanism that oscillates back and forth like an AC circuit.

It is a decent example because it also demonstrates the energy travels faster than the charges (electrons are the charges for most wires). The charges are like the molecules in the belt but the energy travels from the motor to the pully faster than the physical belt does.

He also is stuck on the thought that the electrons are trying to go to the ground and not back to the source.

Then what about electonics on a rocket ship? They leave Earth. Some are out in space and will never reach Earth again.

The circuit is a charge pump assembly: it pumps out charges on one end and gets them back on the other. This is a mechanism for energy exchange (think of the belt and pully with motor on one end and a drive pully on the other end). The Earth does not have to be involved in the energy exchange at all.

 

[alansam]

The reason you don't feel an electric shock is merely because the neutral is grounded.In other words,you and the conductor have the same potential.There must be a difference in potential for electrons/current to flow and hence obtain an electric shock.

 

[kwired]

The reason you don't feel an electric shock is merely because the neutral is grounded.In other words,you and the conductor have the same potential.There must be a difference in potential for electrons/current to flow and hence obtain an electric shock.

Now throw in a neutral with long length and some voltage drop or any resistance for any reason and you do have some potential to ground.

 

[mivey]

Now throw in a neutral with long length and some voltage drop or any resistance for any reason and you do have some potential to ground.

But usually very small, on the order of volts and we need on the order of tens of volts. The skeptic was quoted to have said "if it had current on it people would be getting shocked and possibly killed everytime they touched a meter, panel, etc."

 

[kwired]

But usually very small, on the order of volts and we need on the order of tens of volts. The skeptic was quoted to have said "if it had current on it people would be getting shocked and possibly killed everytime they touched a meter, panel, etc."

Throw in some special conditions cases like people swimming around a boat hoist, we read about those incidents every once in a while here - many times they are simply voltage created by voltage drop on a neutral conductor.


Or dairy farmers that have cows that won't give milk or have reduced milk production because of small voltages on grounded equipment and you still have a problem with even a very small voltage.

 

[mivey]

Throw in some special conditions cases like people swimming around a boat hoist, we read about those incidents every once in a while here - many times they are simply voltage created by voltage drop on a neutral conductor.


Or dairy farmers that have cows that won't give milk or have reduced milk production because of small voltages on grounded equipment and you still have a problem with even a very small voltage.

That is true, and well documented. The skeptic was talking about your run-of-the-mill exposure.

 

[Lectricbota]

Or dairy farmers that have cows that won't give milk or have reduced milk production because of small voltages on grounded equipment and you still have a problem with even a very small voltage.

The dairy industry has spent millions of dollars,especially in the last decade or so on problems of this nature. Unbelievable how sensitive cows are when it comes to voltage potential.

 

[kwired]

The dairy industry has spent millions of dollars,especially in the last decade or so on problems of this nature. Unbelievable how sensitive cows are when it comes to voltage potential.

They have four feet instead of two, don't wear any shoes, and have a longer base between front and back legs so they span over more voltage gradient when just simply standing there. Even farther from back legs to mouth which is on/near the ground a lot on grazing animals.

 

[GUNNING]

up the creek so to speak

up the creek so to speak

That and they stand knee deep in an biological ionic pool of liquid which promotes the conduction of electricity.

 

[kwired]

That and they stand knee deep in an biological ionic pool of liquid which promotes the conduction of electricity.

Knee deep is exaggerated - in most cases anyway. Especially on modern dairy farms. They actually have sloped concrete floors and rinse them periodically to keep them cleaner. They are rinsed with water pumped from the waste water lagoon, but it leaves much cleaner environment than not doing so.

Free range hogs, it may be common, but truth is they love that and not much will make them any happier. Confined hogs are over slotted floors with a collection pit below the floor so it doesn't build up to those kinds of levels.

Free range cattle will roam into a pond when it is hot outside to cool off otherwise they would prefer not to stand in it.

 

[handy10]

If it doesn't carry current, ask him why he installs it? If it doesn't carry current the circuit should work fine without it.

I thought that you needed two wires to connect the receptacle to the box symmetrically!!!