Decora switch for a disposal

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I can?t quite figure out from the OP if the inspectors objection was in reference to 404.7 only or was about motor appliance disconnects, 422

If it was about 422, then to recap what others have said, (NEC2005 references)
422.30, we know that we need a disconnect.

422.31 (B) addresses permanently connected appliances over 1/8th hp. It says a switch or CB can be used if it is in sight and a provision exists for locking the switch or CB and that lock always remains in place.

422.32 says if you use a switch or CB as disconnecting means for permanently connected motor driven appliances over 1/8 hp, it should be in sight from motor controller, then contains an exception in the case of a motor driven appliance over 1/8 hp having a unit switch. As Iwire mentioned, disposals don?t have unit switches.

IF cord and plug connected, plug serves as disconnect.

If it was about 404.7, I can?t see how you could use a decora switch anywhere (which tells me that I am missing something).
 
77401 said:
This should be a poll but has ANYONE everused or known anyone to use a breaker lock? on a residential job?
NOT ME!
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I am talking about the little brass colored thing that goes over a regular breaker that has a hole for a pad lock
 
plate
That is what I was thinking when I asked that question about 404.7. And yes I have used them myself but not for any motors. I must also be missing something here.
Lou
 
Luo & Plate,

The gray area seems to concern just what "indicating" means.

I think that a single pole decora style switch visually indicates whether the top is pressed in, or the bottom is pressed in, and, if oriented vertically and installed "upright", is ON in the "top pressed in" position.
 
I have installed 100`s upon 100`s of breaker lock outs but have never used the first one.As far as a decora switch being used as an indicating device and being hard wired to a disposal.That won`t fly since there is no visual on and off.
 
al hildenbrand said:
I think that a single pole decora style switch visually indicates whether the top is pressed in, or the bottom is pressed in, and, if oriented vertically and installed "upright", is ON in the "top pressed in" position.
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allenwayne said:
As far as a decora switch being used as an indicating device and being hard wired to a disposal.That won`t fly since there is no visual on and off.
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Interseting. We have two individuals describing the exact same switch in opposite ways.

One says the indicate, and one says they do not. Who's correct?
 
al hildenbrand said:
My copy says one-eighth HP. . .and it leads off to 430. . .
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So does mine when I actually take the time to look at it, I was shooting from the hip. :D

I have been posting from an undisclosed location and do not have my reference materials at hand.

Do you forgive me Al? :)
 
al hildenbrand said:
The gray area seems to concern just what "indicating" means.

I think that a single pole decora style switch visually indicates whether the top is pressed in, or the bottom is pressed in, and, if oriented vertically and installed "upright", is ON in the "top pressed in" position.
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It's only gray if you try to make it gray.


Can I remove the on and off labels from a fused disconnect and simply say that the handle down 'indicates' off as we all know that is the standard way they are constructed?

I don't think so, IMO the common interpretation of indicating is the lettering ON and OFF.
 
iwire said:
I don't think so, IMO the common interpretation of indicating is the lettering ON and OFF.
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What about the new tyle switches with I and O or a switch that shows a clored stripe/bar when on and nothing when off?

I too believe that simply saying "up is on down is off is not suffcient", especially for any circuits controlled by three way switches, and no where in the code does it say what side is off or on?
 
If you want to keep it a decora switch just get a lighted decora switch light on its off light off its on to me thats indicating. as far as top in being on I can not count how many switches I have had to go back and turn over because the piece workers installed them upside down you know that little word on them "TOP" on the bottom of the switch. looks kind of like "dOL" and if it is installed horizontal is right in on or is left in on?

you can not count on anything being installed correctly unless you installed it and have not left the area and know that no one has touched it. do not assume that because the bottom is in that it is off
 
rcarroll said:
There might not be a visual indicator on a decora switch, but there dang sure is an audible.
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Thats only true if its working.What is of concern is the repairman.If cord connected no problem.Now if its hard wired we do have a problem.He now needs something positive to tell him its off,normal switch with on /off would be fine.Problem with decora is the lack of the words on/off .At this point i see no differance from a dish washer,a breaker lock puts him in safety.Will he have a pad lock ? not likely.Even most electricians dont carry one.Next problem is his qualifications to remove the wires.If qualified he has a hot stick.His real danger is it might only be jammed and he will hear it hum if switch is on,might need to hit the reset button.While i think the lockout meets code and was the suggested cure i got from an inspector i do think it puts him in a bad spot.If we care about doing this right we should use cord and plug or add a switch under the sink.Now all we need know is who is paying.I am all for offering upgrades but not for free.
 
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77401 said:
Ah Hah!
Another Moderator goes into the Mike Holts Moderator relocation program.

Seriously has anyone else ever experienced this Decora switch being red taged from an inspector?
Not me!
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Only once but because it was mounted sideways (no argument) he said put a breaker lock on it.
 
2005 NEC 404.7 Indicating

General-use and motor-circuit switches, circuit breakers, and molded case switches, where mounted in an enclosure as described in 404.3, shall clearly indicate whether they are in the open (off) or closed (on) position.

Where these switch or circuit breaker handles are operated vertically rather than rotationally or horizontally, the up position of the handle shall be the (on) position.
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A single pole snap switch is required to have the up position as (on). . .how is the physical appearance change of a decora style not indicating.

A touch sensitive electronic plate with no "indicator" lights is not indicating.

A rotary switch (without a visual flag in a window) is not indicating.

A three way wired to another threeway is not indicating, even though it be a bat handle toggle snap switch, because the other threeway makes the orientation indeterminate without also knowing the state of the other threeway.

How many languages does it take to really label ON and OFF. . .to be actually indicating to the general public?
 
marinesgt0411 said:
If you want to keep it a decora switch just get a lighted decora switch light on its off light off its on to me thats indicating.
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I love this one. :D

Light on = OFF

Light off = ON

The perversity of that goes to my point.

:)
 
77401 said:
Ah Hah!
Another Moderator goes into the Mike Holts Moderator relocation program.
Click to expand...

Ssshhh, it's like a resort. :)

Seriously has anyone else ever experienced this Decora switch being red taged from an inspector?
Not me!
Click to expand...

No.....but I have not installed much Decora.
 
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