Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

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Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Now george we have already determined as per code that if a single hr feeds one device,it must be rated at that ampacity.IMO use a single rd 20 or a 20 a duplex is ok
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Originally posted by pierre:
A duplex receptacle is not 1 receptacle, it is 2 receptacles. Since it is 2 receptacles, if you were to install a duplex receptacle, it would not be an individual branch circuit
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Pierre in my opinion both you and the handbook are stretching things a bit.

I agree a duplex is not one receptacle.

A duplex is also not utilization equipment.

Branch Circuit, Individual. A branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment.
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We can argue about intent till the cows come home however only what is written is actually code. :)

It appears to me that I could install 100 receptacles on a circuit and as long as only one piece of utilization equipment is plugged into at a time it would still be an individual branch circuit.

Think about a industrial environment where several welder receptacles are installed on one breaker. They roll the welder from place to place as needed. IMO this would still be an individual branch circuit.

Many issues in the NEC are similar.

We can feed a 200 amp disconnect with 125 amp conductors even though someone may put larger than 125 amp fuses in it.

We can use a 40 circuit panel with only 6 breakers in it as the disconnecting means for separate structure even though someone may later install more breakers.

I can not see how an inspector could force the use of a single receptacle. :)
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

There seems to be a trend on this site, that people can twist, turn and otherwise mutilate any code reference if they don't like what it says.
The english language can be ambiguous at times, with the ambiguity creating some of these very long threads we have seen here at the Mike Holt Forum


"We can argue about intent till the cows come home however only what is written is actually code."

Thank the Lord for freedom of speech in this country.

Reading your post Bob, I think (repeat "I" think) you are the one who is using the english language to stretch what the wording of the code is.

"It appears to me that I could install 100 receptacles on a circuit and as long as only one piece of utilization equipment is plugged into at a time it would still be an individual branch circuit."

You and I know that is not true - but we can make it sound true....

Exception No 2, in 210.52(B)(1) is SPECIFIC IN NATURE and is DIRECTLY addressing the refridgerator (frig, refrigerator, or whateve one wants to call it :D )
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Originally posted by pierre:

Reading your post Bob, I think (repeat "I" think) you are the one who is using the english language to stretch what the wording of the code is.
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Pierre I am very disappointed in your reply. :)

[ June 25, 2005, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

"Pierre I am very disappointed in your reply.

What am I twisting?

I am using the NEC language as defined in article 100.

Specifically

Device

Utilization Equipment

Branch Circuit, Individual

Your thoughts do not match even remotely the NECs words."

I am a little surprised at your conclusion to this topic, as we are both on opposite sides of this topic, and I do not even remotely agree with you - which is unusual, as the past 2 years I have generally areed with most of what you have had to say here on this site.

So regardless of how we "discuss" this, I can see we will have to respectfully disagree.
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Originally posted by allenwayne:
Now george we have already determined as per code that if a single hr feeds one device,it must be rated at that ampacity.IMO use a single rd 20 or a 20 a duplex is ok
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Sure you could do it to according to your opinion, or you could do it to code. 15 amp duplex is fine for this application.
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Originally posted by pierre:
So regardless of how we "discuss" this, I can see we will have to respectfully disagree.
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That's fine :)

Bob

[ June 25, 2005, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Originally posted by iwire:
Taking that as a truth why did they not use the term outlet in place of utilization equipment?

Had they used the term outlet in the definition of individual branch circuit it would clearly state what you want.
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Exception No. 2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.
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Pierre, given the definitions that Bob has presented, let me add one. Receptacle Outlet. If they were bent on your therory, they'd have said "A single receptacle for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted..."

As it is, a box installed shall be permitted...

I know this disagrees with my thoughts on the matter a while back. I fancied the idea that a duplex behind a fridge was illegal, because if a duplex existed behind the fridge, you are installing two receptacles behind the fridge, creating an SA with an illegal receptacle behind equipment.

I've come to the conclusion that the NEC doesn't really care, because it's behind a fridge. :)
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

What is going on there is no violation NEC or Local. The inspector didn't cite either code NEC or a Local code. Ran into an inspector that wanted every bathroom on its own circuit the inspector had a hard time finding an article close to it 210.11(C)(3) and misread it had to tell him I was going to the Construction Board and argue the point and the inspector said they don't have a process for that and called the State Electrical Inspector and explained to the inspector I correctly wired the bathrooms to code, also I overkill 1 bath circuit for master bath, and the other for a guest bath and the upstairs bath. Also I overkill kitchen also giving dining and breakfast seperate 20 amp circuits.
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

I know the code allows you to install the breakfast room and the dining room receptacles on the small appliance branch circuits, but If I dont install them on the S.A.B.C.s then are the brk. rm and the dining rm recep. required to be on 20A ckts or can I put them on a 15A ckt with #14 wire? :confused:

[ June 25, 2005, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: chewy ]
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Originally posted by chewy:
or can I put them on a 15A ckt with #14 wire? :confused:
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No.. 210.52(B) Quote :-In a kitchen,pantry,breakfast room or simular area of dwelling unit,the two(2) or more 20-ampere small appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A) ....

edited..read 210.52(B)(1) and exceptions 1&2..

[ June 25, 2005, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Ahh, so if I don't place the dining room or breakfast room on the SA ckt's then they must still be supplied by a 20 amp dedicated circuit? I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Originally posted by chewy:
I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.
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210.52(b)(2)
-- No other outlets --..*See exceptions 1&2
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Originally posted by dillon3c:
Originally posted by chewy:
I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.
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210.52(b)(2)
-- No other outlets --..*See exceptions 1&2
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Dillon I am not following you on this.

What has no other outlets got to do with it?
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Originally posted by chewy:
then they must still be supplied by a 20 amp dedicated circuit? I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.
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Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

I know the code allows you to install the breakfast room and the dining room receptacles on the small appliance branch circuits
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The code does not allow this...it requires this.
Don
 
Re: Dedicated Circuit for referigerator

Bob
Chewy made a statement earlier:
S.A.B.C.s then are the brk. rm and the dining rm recep. required to be on 20A ckts or can I put them on a 15A ckt with #14 wire?

I think that Dillon is referring to this.

May I also add that if more than the two required small appliance circuits are used to feed the dinning and breakfast room or anywhere else then additional 1500 watts per circuit must be added to the calculation for the service. This will include running a 20 amp circuit for the ice box.

Edited to add:

That is if the ice box is ran with a 20 amp circuit and a duplex is installed
:p

[ June 25, 2005, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
 
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