Defeating the "tamper resistant" outlet

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Russs57 said:
Maybe we should all install with ground pin up?

Maybe we should consider the wisdom of mounting receptacles at 18"? Always hated them ending up behind beds, nightstands, dressers, etc. Don't know code but would it be "illegal" to put them 48" AFF? Not like they are many things that need to sit on the floor.
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lordofthisworld said:
This is the main reason why people install ground up on receptacles
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With no ground pin in what was plugged in it wouldn't have made any difference at all, still shorting the same two points together.

General rule for most dwelling receptacles is up to 18 inches from the wall if in the floor up to 5'-6" high to count as a 210.52 (A) required receptacle. ADA may have more stringent requirements if it applies. Other receptacles can be installed outside these dimensions as desired (most cases) they just aren't allowed to count as a 210.52(A) required receptacle.
 
kwired said:
With no ground pin in what was plugged in it wouldn't have made any difference at all, still shorting the same two points together.

Excellent point, Most everything today is double insulated, lamp cords phone chargers, printers etc.
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LarryFine said:
NEMA shows ground up; I've always thought it's because plugs are more resistant to downward pull-out.
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If a receptacle would happen to be marked "top" then it must have that end up. Most anything beyond that is taboo topic here as there is no correct answer.
 
Actually it is an officially moot topic under forum rules, in part because of previous 100 page exercises

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I still think TR is a gimmick that was mandated for..., well you know.


A determined enough child will defeat TR. If sticking something in one slot does not work why not both which will result in a more dangerous shock. Key is parenting and watching after kids.
 
mbrooke said:
I still think TR is a gimmick that was mandated for..., well you know.


A determined enough child will defeat TR. If sticking something in one slot does not work why not both which will result in a more dangerous shock. Key is parenting and watching after kids.
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I have installed TR receptacles in homes with small children, only to come back and see they put those plug in caps we have seen for years in all the receptacles the child may ordinarily have access to. Some owners may not have been told they are TR and that might be understandable, but others have been told and don't remember or understand anyway, but I still say that they did it because they do think about safety of their child. Not going to say that people don't care about child safety, but many don't care enough to give it much thought until they see something happen.
 
kwired said:
I have installed TR receptacles in homes with small children, only to come back and see they put those plug in caps we have seen for years in all the receptacles the child may ordinarily have access to. Some owners may not have been told they are TR and that might be understandable, but others have been told and don't remember or understand anyway, but I still say that they did it because they do think about safety of their child. Not going to say that people don't care about child safety, but many don't care enough to give it much thought until they see something happen.
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If you ask me those plugs are better. Tony will say however otherwise. :p
 
mbrooke said:
I still think TR is a gimmick that was mandated for..., well you know.


A determined enough child will defeat TR. If sticking something in one slot does not work why not both which will result in a more dangerous shock. Key is parenting and watching after kids.
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until now, I had not given much thought to the fact that if a kid defeats a TR receptacle, he (and I do say he since it's more than likely going to be a boy doing this) is probably going to require two hands and get hit hand-to-hand with an electric shock, Which is far as I know is the worst way to get hit as electricity tends to pass straight through or across the heart.

The saving grace is that you would have to be fairly determined to defeat the TR, and a great many kids nowadays are not going to have the attention span to go grab another paperclip and try again.

Locks are made to deter lazy thieves. TR receptacles
will deter curious but lazy kids.

Kwired, I was trimming out a house a few years ago and went into a mild panic when I thought the 15 or so receptacles I had installed were not TR. They were, however they had black shutters for the TR, so looking at them at a glance they looked very much like a regular duplex receptacle.
 
JFletcher said:
until now, I had not given much thought to the fact that if a kid defeats a TR receptacle, he (and I do say he since it's more than likely going to be a boy doing this) is probably going to require two hands and get hit hand-to-hand with an electric shock, Which is far as I know is the worst way to get hit as electricity tends to pass straight through or across the heart.

The saving grace is that you would have to be fairly determined to defeat the TR, and a great many kids nowadays are not going to have the attention span to go grab another paperclip and try again.

Locks are made to deter lazy thieves. TR receptacles
will deter curious but lazy kids.

Kwired, I was trimming out a house a few years ago and went into a mild panic when I thought the 15 or so receptacles I had installed were not TR. They were, however they had black shutters for the TR, so looking at them at a glance they looked very much like a regular duplex receptacle.
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Yes some of them now have black shutters and is harder to tell at a glance it is a TR receptacle.
 
peter d said:
The BS1363 plug is ridiculous. Other than the sleeved pins, the Euro plug is much better.
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You mean the schucko?

Steckdose.jpg



I like it, but like the schuko plugs its also on the bulk side. Personally I think the "inmetro" plug is the best, followed by the Aus/NZ plug which btw is what America should be using in a similar form.
 
I have used the French plugs on holiday, and the british plugs and the American plugs... Prefer the british plugs actually... but my wife, who has also been to Germany and other places I have yet to go to, and my daughters who have more airmiles as well, all prefer the American plugs..they dont like the idea of having to deal with fuses..lol...which is the part I prefer...

But, they wish american outlets had the switches on them...
 
A few items:

1. TR outlets are designed to prevent insertion of an object. The outlets have screens that block the hot/neutral. The screens are designed to move only when pressure is applied to BOTH at the same time. That is, a plug is being inserted. The screens are designed to hold if an object (e.g., paper clip...things a child might find) impinges on one side.

2. Once a plug is successfully inserted, TR does not protect against contact with prongs during a plate/plug gap where the plug is still engaged with the circuit.

3. I've read advice from some of the masters regarding the wisdom of installing the ground on top (for a longitude outlet) and the neutral on top (for a sideways outlet). This for reasons noted above. This is not a code requirement. The ground on top won't help for double insulated equipment, but the neutral on top (for sideways outlets) will help.

4. When the electrician wired my house, all grounds were bottom, except for switched outlets. Switched outlets had grounds on top. This was to make it easy to identify what outlets were switched. I liked this.
 
mbrooke said:
You mean the schucko?
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I don't know what it's called nor do I care. I just know the British plug is absurdly over-designed. I know they need a fuse because of another stupid British oddity called ring circuits but that thing is unreal. Bulky, huge and crazy big pins. Not even remotely needed. I agree the Australian version is more sensible but so is what we have. Just put some sleeving or protection half way on the pins and I think that solves all issues with the North American design.
 
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