Definition of Device - 2008 NEC

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cschmid said:
okay point taken bad choice of words..so a receptacle is a speed coupling for electrical utilization equipment. So it is nothing more then a female wire connector made to fasten to electrical conductors in an approved enclosure..
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A receptacle is an outlet by definition ;)
 
LarryFine said:
I disagree. A device is not utilization equipment, but is used to control or connect/disconnect utilization equipment.
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This is exactly the issue ,.. take a lighted GFCI ,.. it does utilize energy so it technically did not meet the definition of device ,.. a relay same thing ,.. a pilot light on a switch .. these things all utilize energy and never met the definition of device.

Device. A unit of an electrical system that is intended to carry or control but not utilize electric energy.
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Now they do,..

Device. A unit of an electrical system that carries or controls electric energy as its principal function
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Here is the ROP fro 2004 that lead to the change we see now,.. the funny thing is that they thought the 2005 definition met his intent ? how could it with the "not utilize" language

1-78 Log #2426 NEC-P01
(100?Device) Final Action: Accept in Principle
TCC Action:
It was the action of the Technical Correlating Committee that this Proposal be referred to
Code-Making Panels 2, 9, and 18 for comment.
Submitter: William E. Anderson, The Procter & Gamble Company
Recommendation:
Revise wording to NEC Art 100 Definition Device:
From: Device. A unit of an electrical system that is intended to carry but not utilize electric energy.
To: Device. A unit of an electrical system that has a primary function to conduct or control electric energy.
Substantiation:
It is logically clear coming from the NEC definition of Utilization Equipment that electronic and electromechanical equipment, which is
used in the function of controlling electric energy, could not be considered a device using the current NEC definition.
Also consider the definition for utilization equipment.
From NEC Art 100 Utilization Equipment: Equipment that utilizes electric energy for electronic, electromechanical, chemical, heating,
lighting, or similar purposes.
In many cases the original NEC definition does in fact fit but there are many others where it does not. One approach would be to define
an alternate term such as component or other term and edit the entire NEC to reflect the two distinct meanings. Or as proposed, if the
strict meaning of the present NEC defined term "device" is not absolutely necessary, revise it to include the broader meaning of
equipment whose primary function is to control or transport electrical energy but may use some electrical energy in performing that
function.
As some of the examples where the term device is apparently intending to be understood a more general definition such as the one
proposed here.
80.13 Authority.
Where used in this article, the term authority having jurisdiction shall include the chief electrical inspector or other individuals
designated by the governing body. This Code shall be administered and enforced by the authority having jurisdiction designated by the
governing authority as follows
(15) The authority having jurisdiction shall be permitted to waive specific requirements in this Code or permit alternative methods
where it is assured that equivalent objectives can be achieved by establishing and maintaining effective safety. Technical documentation
shall be submitted to the authority having jurisdiction to demonstrate equivalency and that the system, method, or device is approved
for the intended purpose.
Does the expectation form Art 80.13 (15) exclude electronic, electromechanical equipment that utilizes electric energy while in the
primary function of controlling electric energy?
From NEC Art. 100 Interrupting Rating. The highest current at rated voltage that a device is intended to interrupt under standard test
conditions.
FPN: Equipment intended to interrupt current at other than fault levels may have its interrupting rating implied in other ratings, such as
horsepower or locked rotor current.
Does the motor controller, which often includes electromechanical equipment such as relays and contactors, not have an interrupt
current rating?
From NEC Art 100 Remote-Control Circuit. Any electric circuit that controls any other circuit through a relay or an equivalent device.
Cannot the equivalent device be electromechanical or electronic?
From NEC Art 100 Switch, Transfer. An automatic or non-automatic device for transferring one or more load conductor connections
from one power source to another.
How does the automatic device function if it is not either electronic or electromechanical?
There are other examples throughout the 2002 Edition of the NEC.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Revise the text to read as follows:
Device. A unit of an electrical system that is intended to carry or control but not utilize electric energy.
Panel Statement:
The panel agrees that the definition can be clarified; however, they do not agree with all substantiation from the submitter. The panel
concludes that addition of the word "control" to the existing definition satisfies the intent of the submitter.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Affirmative: 12
Ballot Results:
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LarryFine said:
The receptacle itself isn't the outlet, the box is.
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:-?

What about a pendant receptacle with a solid (molded) cord cap?

What about a hard wired appliance where the branch circuit conductors end inside the appliance?

There are no boxes there. Must not be an outlet, eh?
 
al hildenbrand said:
:-?
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:cool:

What about a pendant receptacle with a solid (molded) cord cap?
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The outlet is the box where the cable is connected to the premises wiring.

What about a hard wired appliance where the branch circuit conductors end inside the appliance?
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The appliance J-box is the outlet, like a fluorescent strip or a bath fan.

There are no boxes there. Must not be an outlet, eh?
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If you look at it that way, then not every circuit or load has an outlet.
 
LarryFine said:
al hildenbrand said:
What about a pendant receptacle with a solid (molded) cord cap?
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The outlet is the box where the cable is connected to the premises wiring.
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For the purpose of my point, let's consider this a 400.7 and 368.56 assembly.

The cord and cord cap are also "premises wiring" in this example. The Premises Wiring (System) ends at the molded cord cap of the pendant where the Utilization Equipment is connected.

The box you are saying the Outlet is at has premises wiring going into it and premises wiring going out of it, and the box contains splices.

In your perspective of a box being the Outlet there is no way to differentiate any splice box along the path of the Premises Wiring (System), and an actual Outlet. I can't tell that any box along the feeder / branch circuit ending in the pendant is not an Outlet.

If one of those boxes houses a switch, then, you are saying a switch at a box is an Outlet.

The "box" enclosing the overcurrent protection, such as the panel, then is an Outlet.

The CT cabinet is an Outlet.
 
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It seems funny to me that the term outlet is not plain ,.. we install them every day ,..yet we seem not able to accept a universal definition as to what and where it is or when it even occurs,..strange :-?
 
M. D. said:
It seems funny to me that the term outlet is not plain ,.. we install them every day ,..yet we seem not able to accept a universal definition as to what and where it is or when it even occurs,..strange :-?
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Isn't it strange, indeed?

This blew my mind, in the process that lead up to the "Big Oops" thread.
 
al hildenbrand said:
For the purpose of my point, let's consider this a 400.7 and 368.56 assembly.

The cord and cord cap are also "premises wiring" in this example. The Premises Wiring (System) ends at the molded cord cap of the pendant where the Utilization Equipment is connected.

The box you are saying the Outlet is at has premises wiring going into it and premises wiring going out of it, and the box contains splices.
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Okay, then for a receptacle that has its own housing, and is part of the premises wiring, that receptacle is the outlet.

To get really persnickety, one could say the housing is the outlet. :cool: But, I won't say that. Yet.

In your perspective of a box being the Outlet there is no way to differentiate any splice box along the path of the Premises Wiring (System), and an actual Outlet. I can't tell that any box along the feeder / branch circuit ending in the pendant is not an Outlet.
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Sure, you can. If nothing is powered from/by that box, it's not an outlet.

If one of those boxes houses a switch, then, you are saying a switch at a box is an Outlet.
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Negatory. Neither the switch nor the box.

The "box" enclosing the overcurrent protection, such as the panel, then is an Outlet.
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No again, unless there's an integral receptacle.

The CT cabinet is an Outlet.
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Heavens to Murgatroyd! Betsy, even!
 
M. D. said:
It seems funny to me that the term outlet is not plain ,.. we install them every day ,..yet we seem not able to accept a universal definition as to what and where it is or when it even occurs,..strange :-?
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To make my point, a queestion:

When you "install them every day," is it your opinion that you install an outlet that receives a receptacle, or that you install a box that receives an outlet?

Or should we agree that the assembly of box and receptacle comprise the outlet?

I maintain that the outlet and the device are (usually) two separate items that we sometimes combine.
 
LarryFine said:
When you "install them every day," is it your opinion that you install an outlet that receives a receptacle, or that you install a box that receives an outlet?

Or should we agree that the assembly of box and receptacle comprise the outlet?

I maintain that the outlet and the device are (usually) two separate items that we sometimes combine.
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My opinion is that a receptacle is a device that creates an outlet at the face of the receptacle, where the wipers will contact the plug prongs. The receptacle device is part of the premises wiring system; the location of the outlet is where the electrons leave the premises wiring system.

Note that an outlet is a "point", a box or a device is not a point.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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