dishwasher/garbage disposal

[Dennis Alwon]

I am not sure where in the code are we prohibited from this install. If both units are fixed in place and do not feed luminaires etc.... then art.210.23(2) does not come into play.

Can I not have a dishwasher that draws 12 amps and a disposal that draws 6 amps on a 20 amp circuit.

I would think we would need to figure 125% of the largest motor then add the rest of the load. Am I correct?

 

[76nemo]

yes...on a bid job if i run an unneeded circuit, i am footing the bill.

O.K., what's fair is fair. I am not a construction guy, if the panel was not that far away from the load, I would calculate it in. You guys are the bidders, you do the estimates, I am not able to question you beyond this. That is far too picky. Doesn't hurt to ask though, right????

 

[76nemo]

I am not sure where in the code are we prohibited from this install. If both units are fixed in place and do not feed luminaires etc.... then art.210.23(2) does not come into play.

Can I not have a dishwasher that draws 12 amps and a disposal that draws 6 amps on a 20 amp circuit.

I would think we would need to figure 125% of the largest motor then add the rest of the load. Am I correct?

Can we add a GFCI recep to a circuit protected by a GFCI breaker? Sure we can. Can I plug in a GFCI protected cord to the pool pump? Sure I can. This is all about what we would want done personally in our homes. You are far more than correct Dennis, I am just too OC. That's clinical

 

[Minuteman]

Watched the wife clean up after the 4th of July cookout. (I can see the kitchen from my desk). She scraped off some food into the sink, hit the disposal, put the dish in the dishwasher. Once all the dishes were loaded she closed the door to the DW and turned it on. Neither appliance was ever on at the same time.

 

[roger]

Doesn't hurt to ask though, right????

Not at all but, as someone who lies awake nights worrying about how jobs are going to get done, meet schedules, take care of billings, bitting my tongue in meetings, and all the other fun things that come with management positions, winning bids (not that I do residential but all things are relative) help me not have to worry about sending someone home with a short week or even laying someone off, and that's a lot better than worrying about how I'm going to man a job.

Roger

 

[stickboy1375]

Watched the wife clean up after the 4th of July cookout.

Nice! :grin:

 

[Minuteman]

Nice! :grin:

She is a wonderful girl... and I did grill the meat and all.

 

[hillbilly]

Can I not have a dishwasher that draws 12 amps and a disposal that draws 6 amps on a 20 amp circuit.

Yes

If the amperage of both added together is 20A or less, and they are both "fastened in place" you can.

Read 210.23(A)(2)

steve

 

[JohnJ0906]

Yes

If the amperage of both added together is 20A or less, and they are both "fastened in place" you can.

Read 210.23(A)(2)

steve

I don't think that applies here. There are no lighting or cord-and-plug not fastened in place equipment. Just a dispose all and DW.

I think 210.19(1) applies. (Which does allow it, depending on the equipment ampacitys)

 

[iwire]

So we are getting down to the nitty gritty and worried about losing bids on this???

Yes, for ECs that bid large groups of homes as a package one more circuit ends up being many more circuits.

Its just a sad fact that the GCs of housing developments are going to take the lowest price without regard to quality.

Of course there are exceptions to that, for instance 480sparky does a lot of high end homes that do not have to be done foe pennies.

 

[jrannis]

this debate has gone on for years. i have put the dishwasher and disposer on the same circuit for 16 yrs., and at my own house too. i have never had any problem with this installation and none of my inspectors have ever questioned it.

Its usually the only place in a residential panel you will see a handle tie or a two pole breaker for 120 volt circuits

 

[electricmanscott]

Its usually the only place in a residential panel you will see a handle tie or a two pole breaker for 120 volt circuits

Not on my jobs. Loads of MWBC's

 

[electricmanscott]

somebody on here a while back in a similar post told about a clever idea to use a three way switch as a selector between diswasher and garbage disposal, down to power up dishwasher, up to turn on garbage disposal.

Sure fire guaranteed no doubt about it way to make yourself look like an idiot...

 

[stickboy1375]

Sure fire guaranteed no doubt about it way to make yourself look like an idiot...

And for no reason too...

 

[Ragin Cajun]

In a 40 or so unit apartment building, combining the two into one breaker saves 40 circuits, no small change. The narrow apartment dishwashers are 18" wide and draw only 9 amps (have 24" wide drawing 11 amps) with the disposal drawing only 4 amps. #14 wire, 15A circuit. Neither is a continuous, greater than three hour load. Works for Section 8 housing.

RC

 

[mdshunk]

In a 40 or so unit apartment building, combining the two into one breaker saves 40 circuits, no small change. The narrow apartment dishwashers are 18" wide and draw only 9 amps (have 24" wide drawing 11 amps) with the disposal drawing only 4 amps. #14 wire, 15A circuit. Neither is a continuous, greater than three hour load. Works for Section 8 housing.

I know I'm late in the game here, but I've combined them on jobs where the requirement was "cheap". It's not a 210.23(A)(2) violation, because both appliances are fastened in place. I favor separate circuits, but when push comes to shove, and the dataplates accommodate, I'll combine them.

 

[Minuteman]

I know I'm late in the game here, but I've combined them on jobs where the requirement was "cheap". It's not a 210.23(A)(2) violation, because both appliances are fastened in place. I favor separate circuits, but when push comes to shove, and the dataplates accommodate, I'll combine them.

I think that's the name of the game. Use the code to our advantage, which includes code minimums. Of course, if you have the ability to up sale then go for it. (Heck put as much as you can on dedicated circuits).

 

[hillbilly1]

The three way switch idea is great for your service department, easy money when the new homeowner calls and says one or the other is not working. Having a dedicated circuit for the disposal that is used for approx. 5 minutes a day is just a waste of wire and panel space. Instead, add another countertop circuit where it will be used. If you wire a house by code, you have done a terrible job. Put circuits where they are really needed. Of course the residential that I do are all high end anyway. Cookie cutter residential is a hard way to make a living.

 

[LarryFine]

(Disclaimer: I know this was taken out of context.)

I agree with a lot of what you said, but not this statement:

If you wire a house by code, you have done a terrible job.

It would be more fair to say you have wired it safely and competently. Convenience is not a concern of most codes. Performance can be separated between safety and convenience.

I'm a big fan of distributing loads among circuits with performance and convenience in mind, but it's not "terrible" to wire a house "by code" when cost of installation is a priority.

 

[peter d]

If you wire a house by code, you have done a terrible job.

Darn. Where do I turn in my license? :roll: