Do Engineers Have A Clue?

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Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

I am an instructor at Delaware Technical & Community College, where I teach Programmable Logic Controllers on the College Level.
I also teach the NEC to electricians who wish to take the Masters Exam.
I have gone to the Chair of the Electrical/Electronics Department, and I suggested to her that it would be a good tool to have on the EE's resume. I know that it would certainly help out in the Construction Design area. The problem that the "Chair" has, is trying to work it into the schedule. I worked in the Design group of a large chemical company for four years. We had some very sharp EE's coming in, but with not one bit of knowledge of the NEC.
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

It seems there's some significant effort being put into avoiding teaching the NEC.

Could it be that I'm not the only one who thinks the book is exessively difficult? :)
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

Could it be that I'm not the only one who thinks the book is excessively difficult?
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Sam, I can't believe that this statement is coming from an engineer, I have seen some of the textbooks. :D
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

I'm not an engineer Charlie, although I have my occasional aspirations. But I can tell you there's nary an esoteric text that's got anything over the NEC in the difficulty department. :)
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

Originally posted by physis:
But I can tell you there's nary an esoteric text that's got anything over the NEC in the difficulty department. :)
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Sam, I agree. This forum would not exist if the NEC was easy. :D

Thankfully, there are many intelligent people here who can help those of us (like myself) that are challenged by the code. :D

[ December 21, 2004, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

Originally posted by physis: But I can tell you there's nary an esoteric text that's got anything over the NEC in the difficulty department.
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Have you ever read Chaucer? ;) But my wife (BA in English and an MLIS) might take you up on that challenge.
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

Master of Library and Information Science.
Do you see how far one must go. :)
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

Lady, with all due respect, I would hope that the EE program at Penn State covers more than DC Circuits and PCBs.
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

I'm gonna make an assumption or two in defense of Lady SL. Not just because she's a girl. (If you click her profile icon there's a picture). You can't remove ac theory from electrical engineering. But I would assume now days there might be a stronger emphesis on dc and PCB design and fabrication. Not that there's a lot of demand this side of the Pacific for that anymore.
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

When the NEC starts offering research grants then it will be offered as part of the electrical engineering curriculum. BSEET from Penn State in 1995, took one of the "industrial" courses. No mention of codes, nothing about conduit runs, little on PLC's but mainly power electronics. I learned about code requirements from a mechanical engineer who was using a code book 2 cycles back. That is my biggest hurdle today, is dealing with engineers from another discipline who have worked with the code. About three months ago one was telling me why his recommendation was code compliant based on his 1993 book. At my last job I had another one that would pick between the NEC and NFPA 79 based on what he wanted to do. For me, this bulletin board has been a tremendous resource. Even though the focus is primarily on residential I have seen a tremendous amount of information that I have benefited from. It got me to change an Edison light I put in a closet I built to florescent when I added shelving. :)

Tony

[ December 22, 2004, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: tony_psuee ]
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

Many engineers that I have worked with told me that about 80% of what they do on the job has very little to do with what they learned in school. They learned their job functions on the job.
Don
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

Many engineers that I have worked with told me that about 80% of what they do on the job has very little to do with what they learned in school. They learned their job functions on the job.
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I agree 100% with this statement. EE degrees are all built on theory with not much emphasis on practicallity (sp?). I was in classes where the instructor tried to coordinate what they were teaching with real world applications, but most times, it was just theory. I feel like the degree I got was geared more towards Research and Development.
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

Originally posted by rattus:
Lady, with all due respect, I would hope that the EE program at Penn State covers more than DC Circuits and PCBs.
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Hi Rattus,

That's just overall. I'm sure they have more than that, but as far as Power Distribution design for buildings, you won't find it in the EE program at Penn State. The switch is that I can't do much of that low voltage type of electrical engineering which someone with an EE degree can do.

The great thing is I'm welcoming the NEC portion of the PE, because it gives me more options. I don't have to remember what a diode is....and design one...


Lady :)
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

Originally posted by wirenut1980:
I agree 100% with this statement. EE degrees are all built on theory with not much emphasis on practicallity (sp?). I was in classes where the instructor tried to coordinate what they were teaching with real world applications, but most times, it was just theory. I feel like the degree I got was geared more towards Research and Development.
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Yes, it is mostly theory, but in the AE program, they teach you how to wire a building, how to light rooms, and how to use the NEC for at least 3 years of your 5 years. Also they give you your first NEC code book in your 3rd year, and for my final thesis project, I had to completely rewire an existing building from soup to nuts.

That's the difference. I came out having a knowledge of what it take to wire a building, just need some help with implimenting what the field requirement. It was very similar, and helped a lot. I just stumbled upon the program, but I'm so glad I found it.

Lady :)

[ December 22, 2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: lady sparks lover ]
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

I agree with don. If I use 20% of what I learned in school in one day I leave work with a headache :D

I started out working for a European company and they have two types of engineers in Germany, Ing. and Dipl. Ing., at least that is what we called them based on the business cards. The Ing. went through a 5-6 year apprentice program and the Dipl. Ing. went to a 4 year university and a 1 year apprentice program. Maybe our neighbors across the big pond have a good idea??

Anyway the EE education does help when trying to figure out what is wrong with your motorcycle's electrical system :mad:

Tony
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

And here I thought that engineers wrote themselves out of any NEC conflicts by adding the words The contractor is responsible for installing all work in a workmanlike manner and according to the NEC
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

We do. :D The secret's out! :eek:

Actually, if I were to make an NEC-related error on a drawing, I would not want the installer to think he or she can install my error and take no blame for the result. We both have the duty to protect the public. If you see an error on my drawing, I want you to tell me about it.
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

Originally posted by charlie b:
We do. :D The secret's out! :eek:

Actually, if I were to make an NEC-related error on a drawing, I would not want the installer to think he or she can install my error and take no blame for the result. We both have the duty to protect the public. If you see an error on my drawing, I want you to tell me about it.
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You engineers have to realize that people bid the project based on your drawings. If there is an error and the person bidding it doesn't catch it but the guy in the field does, who is supposed to pay to make it correct? I've seen a lot of purses slam shut when we point out potential code problems.
 
Re: Do Engineers Have A Clue?

i worked on a federal project that used an inexperienced minority contractor. they got a pe to sign away stuff to code 25 years out of date. Although the plans and specs indicated the job was to be to code applicable to location, federal reserves are exempt.

they spent so much time trying to get out of doing small stuff right that the whole project lost money. they spent 50% of their time arguing and refusing to do 1% of the work.

and i only picked code issues that would impact the client in terms of quality and safety. They would send a letter with the pe's stamp. it was fluff. the pe didn't even know what was going on on the job, the changes that accumulated to alter the design specs.

he started writing vague letters approving designs that neither had his stamp nor outright acceptance of overall design issues.

paul
 
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