Do you think NABCEP is worth it?

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hydeisland

Member
Location
San Diego,CA
Im a small time contractor planning on doing about 10 PV installs of about 50 Kw in only residential this year. Im scheduled to sit for the next exam and have already paid the $300 app fee and will pay the $100 license fee once the test is passed, then it needs to be renewed every year for I believe for $100. Do you guys think it is worth this? I feel like none of my potential customers will know who they are. I will put it on my brochures but I feel the BBB accreditation is worth 10X more. It s an intense test that will drive me to study hard and expand my knowledge of the industry, but I feel thats a steep price for motivation.
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
I personally feel the cost associated with certification and licensing is well worth it. Sometimes, it's the one thing that sets you apart from the other guy. The time and effort put into the preparation and study pays off in the long run. While not all certifications and licenses are of value, "nationally" or "industry" recognized certifications and licenses usually are.

Some food for thought, I would much rather be in possession of a useless certification than to regret not having one I need that I could of had earlier...
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
In my area NABCEP certification is often a requirement to take advantage of some of the rebate or incentive programs.

The BBB is worthless and is just a money making scam.
 

Solrman

New member
Location
Chicago
NABCEP

NABCEP

NABCEP is not a license to install. NEC says that "only qualified individuals" should do electrical work. There are some individual who are NABCEP certified who are not qualified to do electrical work. Solar does require a special skill set, but doing good electrical work is a whole other skill set that some so called certified installers do not possess. It takes years of experience to become a good electrician. According to NABCEP you need 40 hours of training to sit for the exam.
Hardly what I would call a "qualified individual"
 

Article 90.1

Senior Member
I think that NAPCEP is a misleading certification to our consumers. Most people claim to be NAPCEP certified, but they have only met the level 1 requirements which, to me, means nothing.

I agree with the PV side of our industry having the standard of NAPCEP, but I also think that NABCEP needs to line up better with the electrical trade. I see too many non-electricians who are NAPCEP 1 or 2 certified, but are in no way electricians. We should really protest the installation of PV systems by unqualified personnel. Either NABCEP should line up wit us, or we should do away with NAPCEP.

The tough thing is that most of our PV customers and prospective customers are very well educated and have learned to ask for NABCEP certification, therefore, NAPCEP is just another iteration of the BBB in the PV and RE world, IMHO!

There exists a great deal of value in the NAPCEP certifications, but I think it is a case of the tail wagging the dog and we [electricians] are the dog!
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
I think that NAPCEP is a misleading certification to our consumers. Most people claim to be NAPCEP certified, but they have only met the level 1 requirements which, to me, means nothing.

I agree with the PV side of our industry having the standard of NAPCEP, but I also think that NABCEP needs to line up better with the electrical trade. I see too many non-electricians who are NAPCEP 1 or 2 certified, but are in no way electricians. We should really protest the installation of PV systems by unqualified personnel. Either NABCEP should line up wit us, or we should do away with NAPCEP.

In general I'm inclined to agree with much of your comments, except that I would say they are out of date as NABCEP seems to be addressing your concerns nowadays.

NABCEP no longer uses 'level 1' or 'level 2' terminology, and they are very clear that the Entry Level Certification does not make you a NABCEP Certified Installer. If people are claiming to be NABCEP certified when they are not, that's hardly NABCEP's fault. Also, my experience doesn't jive with your contention that 'most people claim to be NABCEP certified', although that may be because we are in different places.

To even sit for the PV installer certification exam, you have to either be a licensed electrical contractor, or have 2-4 years of experience or education of various types, in addition to taking 40 hours of training, and so on. It's really not something that totally unqualified people can pass, and of course it doesn't substitute for being a licensed contractor (nor is the opposite true).

I think the real purpose of NABCEP certification is to credential individuals (not companies) who are primarily going to spend their time designing systems rather than installing them, especially larger systems, while working either for a solar contractor or on a contract basis for commercial clients. I agree that it doesn't qualify someone to do installation work, and that at the residential consumer level it has a lot less meaning.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
I know nothing about NEBCEP; indeed, before this thread, I had never heard of the "North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners." Wherw! What a name. How about just something like "SETI- Solar Electral Technician Institute?" :)

I did raise a similar question here about BICSI, the group that sets standards for low voltage, communication, and data wiring. You know, the folks who define what "Cat 5" means. I'd wager that many more of us encounter Cat 5 than solar. Yet, responders to my thread showed no interest at all in having BICSI certifications.

This is, at least, from a technical standpoint. The cynic in me responds to that 'energy practioner' claptrap by wondering if the group, like LEED, has a political (rather than technical) focus. With the advent of sundry 'energy codes,' I'm just a wee bit wary.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
The cynic in me responds to that 'energy practioner' claptrap by wondering if the group, like LEED, has a political (rather than technical) focus. With the advent of sundry 'energy codes,' I'm just a wee bit wary.

I think that NABCEP was founded by people who believed in solar and want to help train people to get into it and do it well. You can decide if you think that's political, but I don't think you can reasonably argue that NABCEP has no technical focus. Note that NABCEP handles both solar electric and solar thermal, so the term 'energy practitioner' may just be their way of including both. (Maybe they also want(ed) to handle wind and other such things as well, I don't know.) Much of the material that the tests cover has to do with how to orient solar collectors to gather the most energy, which along with the entire thermal side has nothing to do with electricity. I think that's the first thing that electricians need to understand about NABCEP. There's a bunch of knowledge required to do solar properly that most electricians don't know because it doesn't involve electricity, and pursuing NABCEP is one way to learn it and/or make it look like you've learned it. Like any credential, it isn't a substitute for common sense. That's no different for electricians' licenses.
 

Strife

Senior Member
PUHLEEEEZE!

How exactly a "green certification" makes me a better electrical contractor? For those kind of projects I don't design them. I build them, the engineer says install this and that on the drawings, I have no say.
How exactly the solar orientation makes me a better PV installer? Am I engineering that? (as an installer?)
Just like the AFCI, "we can't make money anymore selling regular breakers, and even though our technology is not perfected yet, we can make a s**t load of money by lobbying the code to make AFCI mandatory.

I think that NABCEP was founded by people who believed in solar and want to help train people to get into it and do it well. You can decide if you think that's political, but I don't think you can reasonably argue that NABCEP has no technical focus.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
PUHLEEEEZE!How exactly a "green certification" makes me a better electrical contractor?

It's not a 'green certification'. It's a certification that you understand solar design and the relevant code.

For those kind of projects I don't design them. I build them, the engineer says install this and that on the drawings, I have no say.

Fine then, NABCEP isn't meant for you. As I said above, I think its more of a design and engineering certification than an installation one.

How exactly the solar orientation makes me a better PV installer? Am I engineering that? (as an installer?)

I think that understanding shading issues in particular makes me a much better installer. Sometimes the designer or engineer just doesn't see those things the way I do when I'm at the jobsite installing. But that is a tiny part of what NABCEP includes. Also sometimes engineers mess up, and it's good if you can catch their mistakes.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
My scepticism aside, there is a real need to learn a lot of 'other stuff' whenever you take on another aspect of the electrical trade.

I must admit that I've seen very few discussions of "solar" that address even the most basic trade issues. Nor does the NEC address some of the most important ones!

For example ... what do you call a big, flat thing you stick up high? A sail, that's what. Every solar panel is situated where it will catch the wind like a sail. Not your concern? Just try carrying a sheet of plywood on a windy day. Chances are, the first panels you mount won't be anchored nearly well enough.

Add to that a need to improve your skills at sealing the leaks you just made in the roof.

Is positioning your problem? As a solar installer, it better be. We're not just running wires to something the other guy mounted. Just as the DirectTV guy needs to find the right satellite, we need to point these things the right way.

As the news led off today with yet another story of political corruption in the 'solar' business, and with my remembering similar shennanigans when Carter was in the WHite House, I am inclined to be ..... cautious. Yet, I'm not going to assume anything about NABCEP- just be wary.

I've often asserted that we need to know far more than 'just the NEC.' Whether this trade group has something to contribute is the question. I do note that they don't even sell, or post, the relevant technical materials .... just their certifications. Contrast this to BICSI, which not only certifies, but also trains and literally 'wrote the book' in their field.

As for the solar manufacturers .... while there seems to be no shortage of marketing schemes, I see very few products. I am wary of any industry that is so focused on the 'administrative' side of things. As such, they seem designed to cut the ordinary contractor out of the business. Imagine where our trade would be if, say, Square D sold its' stuff only to a handful of 'certified' installers with protected territories?
 
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