Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

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lile001

lile001

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OK, obviously it is not a bad idea to have your electrical room fire rated. But do the codes require that?

NEC 110.25 (C), the section requiring two panic-bar exit doors from an electrical working space, is the section of the NEC I have to explain to architects most often. "The NEC requires WHAT!?!" is the usual response. Usually I get a look that indicates I have just sprouted antennae out of the top of my head. "Yes, the ELECTRICAL code really does require panic bar doors, you heard it right." The latest question I got is, do we need fire rated doors? So far I don't see anything in the electrical code that would require anything in the electrical room to be fire rated, let alone the doors. I am not as familiar with other building codes. I won't argue that fire rated doors and walls are not a good idea, but the question is, are they required by any of the codes?
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

If you have a transformer larger than 11.25kVA, be sure to see 450.21(B). Other than that, there is no requirement, other than requirements that the architect should not about, such as accessory uses or incidental use areas.
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

The requirement of doors equiped with panic bars is not as easily understood as some think it is.

The entrance to the working space if it has doors is required to have panic bars and open to towards egress.

It the electrical room is large enough, that the working space is within the room, but the door(s) is far enough away from the equipment that the door(s) is not in the work space, than the door(s) outside of the work space are not required to have the panic bars.

110.26(C)
"(2) Large Equipment. For equipment rated 1200 amperes or more and over 1.8 m (6 ft) wide that contains overcurrent devices, switching devices, or control devices, there shall be one entrance to the required working space not less than 610 mm (24 in.) wide and 2.0 m (61⁄2 ft) high at each
end of the working space. Where the entrance has a personnel door(s), the door(s) shall open in the direction of egress and be equipped with panic bars, pressure plates, or other devices that are normally latched but open under simple
pressure.


So, if the electric room is large enough that the door(s)is of sufficient distance away from the equipment, then those door(s) are not required to be equiped with panic bars as those doors are not part of the working space.
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

I disagree Pierre. As I read it, the the "exceptions" listed in a and b only exempt out the requirement of the two entrance/exits. If they have doors, they still must swing in the direction of egress travel and must have panic hardware--this oart is not exempted by items a and b.


Edited for spelling.

[ December 06, 2005, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Not so fast, Ryan. I think I see Pierre's point (not sure if I agree with him yet).

There is a difference between
. . . there shall be one entrance to the REQUIRED WORKING SPACE not less than 610 mm (24 in.) wide and 2.0 m (6.5 ft) high at each end of the WORKING SPACE.
Click to expand...
And
. . . there shall be one entrance to the ROOM not less than 610 mm (24 in.) wide and 2.0 m (6.5 ft) high at each end of the ROOM.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Pierre,
Good luck trying to find an architect who will give you that much room for electrical equipment.
-Ed
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I still don't see the difference. You are required to have an entrance to the wroking space. If such opening is a door, it must swing outwards and have panic hardware if the equipment is rated 1200 amps. If you have double working space you only need one entrance/exit to the working space, but it still has to swing out and have panic hardware.
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Pierre I never read it like that, I just learned something, Thanks. :cool:
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Ryan I believe there is a difference between an entrance to a room and an entrance to the clearly defined working space.
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

I still don't see it. You have to have an entrance to the working space, regardless of how large it is (doubled or not). If such entrance is a door, it must swing outward and have panic hardware. What am I not seeing?
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

I agree with ryan, the whole idea of that door having panic hardware & swinging in the direction of egress, is for the electrician who gets hurt in that electrical room and cannot use his hands to pull open a door, I do not think that the size of that elec. room effects the door swing & panic hardware
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Originally posted by ryan_618:
What am I not seeing?
Click to expand...
IMO the difference is in this.

there shall be one entrance to the required working space
Click to expand...
Not just any working space only the required working space.

I take that to mean the working space set forth in 110.26(A)

If the electric room was 20' x 40' with a single 1,200 amp switch board 7' long in that room the required work space wold be just a small part of that large electric room.

JMO, since reading Pierre's post.

Bob
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Originally posted by iwire:
If the electric room was 20' x 40' with a single 1,200 amp switch board 7' long in that room the required work space wold be just a small part of that large electric room.
Click to expand...
Right. And if the entrance to the working space was a door, it would have to swing out and have panic hardware.
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Originally posted by ryan_618:
Originally posted by iwire:
If the electric room was 20' x 40' with a single 1,200 amp switch board 7' long in that room the required work space wold be just a small part of that large electric room.
Click to expand...
Right. And if the entrance to the working space was a door, it would have to swing out and have panic hardware.
Click to expand...
In 'my room' there is no wall around the working space to install a door in. :)
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Perfect. If there is not a door, then it does not have to meet the rules for a door. If, however, there is a door, then it has to meet the rules for a door.
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Bob, youknow how highly I value your opinion (as well as Pierre's), so I want to make sure I am getting this perfectly clear. What you are saying is if I have room that is 3 inches large than the required working space, I can put a door on the wall and it doesn't need to comply, because the door isn't in the working space?
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

That is essentially it. But I am still not sure I agree.

Here's my problem with Pierre's line of reasoning: What is a "entrance" to anything (to a room, to working space, to anything), if it is not a door? It certainly can be a doorway, with no door installed. Then, at least, you can tell whether it has a dimension of at least 2 x 6.5 feet. But what else can be described as having dimensions of height and width?

I need to think about this one some more.
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Originally posted by ryan_618:
Bob, youknow how highly I value your opinion (as well as Pierre's), so I want to make sure I am getting this perfectly clear. What you are saying is if I have room that is 3 inches large than the required working space, I can put a door on the wall and it doesn't need to comply, because the door isn't in the working space?
Click to expand...
Thanks Ryan, I won't speak for Pierre but to answer your question yes.

However I am now on the fence like a two faced politician. :p

If the room is 1" larger than the required working space I do not believe we are required to have the panic bars.

I know that is not what the NECH says and I have no idea if that was the intent.

My real issue is with the CMPs repetitive use of working space instead of room.

I believe that the CMPs are very deliberate in their choice of words and they chose working space.

In order for me to see it any other way I would have to know why they chose not to use 'room' instead of "required working space".

However going with my new view leads to a problem.

If the room is one inch smaller than the required working space we have a violation.

If the room is one inch larger than the required working space we do not need the doors.

Only if the room is exactly the size of the working space do we need the doors. :p

Please someone make me understand why they did not say room? :confused:

Bob

[ December 06, 2005, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Bob, your "rambling post" says exactly what I wanted to say, only I got frustrated trying to say it and gave up!

I do see you and Pierre's point, but I am glad you are seeing mine as well.

As you said, we are now in the area of guessing what panel 1's intent was. I believe the intent is that the doors, if provided, must comply, regardless of the distance from the equipment. Let's not forget the intent here. I just got an arc blast that has temporarily (or permanantly) blinded me, and has limited the use of my hands. I don't see where the 1' of physical distance changes the intent.
 
Re: Does an electrical room have to be fire rated?

Originally posted by ryan_618:
Bob, your "rambling post" says exactly what I wanted to say, only I got frustrated trying to say it and gave up!
Click to expand...
:D

Aside from the code wording I definitely see your side (and MDPs) from a safety standpoint.
 
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