Does my main service panel need grounded?

[kwired]

Where I live and do the most work is near borders of four different inspector's territories, majority of work I do is inspected by the inspector that has the area I live in, but his office is about 100 miles from furthest southwest corner of his territory. If I go a little further south I am at the northeast corner of another territory and that location would be about 80 miles for that inspector to drive to. If I go a little further to the north and west (still within 20-30 miles from my shop and well within area I do regular work) that inspector's office is about 130 miles away. If I go to the south and east from my shop about 20 miles the inspector for that area is about 50 miles away - he is closest but yet I seem to do least work in that area and more in those other areas. I don't see any of them face to face all that often.

 

[yzman720]

I terminated the green screw in the upper right of box next to main breaker bonding the neutral to the panel itself. I am going to call this panel a done job unless anyone sees anything I'm missing? I didn't use the neutral terminal kit that comes with the panels due to it being an all pex ran house and not needing to ground to the water pipes.

 

[Cavie]

your good to go. looks very neat.

 

[meternerd]

Is the meter ahead of the main in your panel? Does it have its own Service Disconnect? If so, this is a sub-panel. If not, how are you bonding the breaker panel to the meter base? If the conduit was metal, it would have to be bonded with a bonding bushing, but with PVC, I assume you'd still have to run a bond from the meter to the breaker panel. Where does your GEC connect? Not used to seeing separate meter and breaker panels. Our are usually combo-panels. Different world, I guess.

 

[John120/240]

*
*Is the meter ahead of the main in your panel? * From the looks of it yes
* Does it have its own Service Disconnect? If so, this is a sub-panel. * The first disconnect would be the Main breaker, Not a sub panel
* If not, how are you bonding the breaker panel to the meter base?* The grounded conductor (neutral) is factory bonded to the meter enclosure
* If the conduit was metal, it would have to be bonded with a bonding bushing, but with PVC, I assume you'd still have to run a bond from the meter to the breaker panel.* Again the grounded conductor serves this purpose.
* Where does your GEC connect?* GEC's would land on the neutral bus since the panel is our first disconnect
* Not used to seeing separate meter and breaker panels. Our are usually combo-panels. Different world, I guess.* Separate meter & separate panel are the norm here

meternerd the above is my interpretation of yzman720's situation


PS how do I post in color ? BB code is on not red

 

[Cavie]

meternerd the above is my interpretation of yzman720's situation


PS how do I post in color ? BB code is on not red

After you type your sentence, Hi light the area you want to color. Go up to all those little boxes above in the gray area. Click on the letter A dropdown arrow and pick you color. FYI, the letter B is for bold. I is for italicized. U is for underlined. As for the rest your on you on. Class dismissed.

 

[Cavie]

Is the meter ahead of the main in your panel? Does it have its own Service Disconnect? If so, this is a sub-panel. If not, how are you bonding the breaker panel to the meter base? If the conduit was metal, it would have to be bonded with a bonding bushing, but with PVC, I assume you'd still have to run a bond from the meter to the breaker panel. Where does your GEC connect? Not used to seeing separate meter and breaker panels. Our are usually combo-panels. Different world, I guess.

The GREEN bonding screw the OP is referring to at the top right of the picture bonds the panel to the Neutral buss in the panel and the so the neutrals and grounds are bonded together. There is only a meter outside. I don't know how far he has run inside the structure with the service wires but around these parts it could only be 5'. If more than that, there would need to be an outside disconnect and this panel would become a sub panel with no main needed and neutrals and grounds would be separated and the green screw would not be installed. The little green screw does all the bonding work.

 

[kwired]

I terminated the green screw in the upper right of box next to main breaker bonding the neutral to the panel itself. I am going to call this panel a done job unless anyone sees anything I'm missing? I didn't use the neutral terminal kit that comes with the panels due to it being an all pex ran house and not needing to ground to the water pipes.

If that is the service equipment - it needs a main breaker installed in it. If that is not the service equipment there needs to be a service disconnect somewhere upstream and that is where the neutral gets bonded to the enclosure and the equipment grounding conductor "begins" and must be separated from the "grounded conductor" (neutral in your case) from that point on.

 

[ptonsparky]

I terminated the green screw in the upper right of box next to main breaker bonding the neutral to the panel itself. I am going to call this panel a done job unless anyone sees anything I'm missing? I didn't use the neutral terminal kit that comes with the panels due to it being an all pex ran house and not needing to ground to the water pipes.

Looks nice. Where did you terminate the #4 that was hanging in the OP?

 

[kwired]

If that is the service equipment - it needs a main breaker installed in it. If that is not the service equipment there needs to be a service disconnect somewhere upstream and that is where the neutral gets bonded to the enclosure and the equipment grounding conductor "begins" and must be separated from the "grounded conductor" (neutral in your case) from that point on.

My apologies - when I replied last night for some reason I missed seeing the main breaker, I think viewing angle on screen may have made some difference and I maybe assumed to some degree it was same thing as earlier in thread just with conductors added:ashamed1:

Ok now I am either losing it, or someone is messing with me. I went back to OP and looked at that image and there is a main breaker in that image as well. Maybe need to go to eye doctor.

 

[meternerd]

meternerd the above is my interpretation of yzman720's situation


* Where does your GEC connect?* GEC's would land on the neutral bus since the panel is our first disconnect

I don't see it in the pic...must be in the SEALED meter enclosue. Nuff said. Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if bonding the neutral with a screw in a separate enclosure was enough bonding for a service. Now I know. Still a big fan of outside main, though. (Just had to say it)!

 

[cowboyjwc]

I bet none of those CA or FL inspectors ever have to travel 100 miles (or more) to do an inspection in their "regular territory" either.

Nope, I'm not sure if my area is even 50 square miles.

 

[ptonsparky]

Nope, I'm not sure if my area is even 50 square miles.

The Panhandle, District 1, is roughly 100 by 125 miles for one state inspector.

There may be a few city inspectors in the area but not many.

 

[cowboyjwc]

The Panhandle, District 1, is roughly 100 by 125 miles for one state inspector.

There may be a few city inspectors in the area but not many.

Oh yeah guess I should have answered mine different. There are six inspectors, 3 residential, 2 commercial, and myself the electrical inspector, to cover 50 square miles.

 

[kwired]

Oh yeah guess I should have answered mine different. There are six inspectors, 3 residential, 2 commercial, and myself the electrical inspector, to cover 50 square miles.

And that 12,500 square miles in western NE maybe has population of 20 maybe 30,000 people (with city inspectors in one or two cities that are only 5-10,000 population - so State inspector has the rest of the area. Your 50 square miles possibly has 75,000 people or more.

50 square mile circle with my shop at the center - has a population of less then 100. Increase that to a 60 square mile circle and it jumps to maybe 2000 - nearest town is just outside the 50 square mile circle.

 

[cowboyjwc]

And that 12,500 square miles in western NE maybe has population of 20 maybe 30,000 people (with city inspectors in one or two cities that are only 5-10,000 population - so State inspector has the rest of the area. Your 50 square miles possibly has 75,000 people or more.

50 square mile circle with my shop at the center - has a population of less then 100. Increase that to a 60 square mile circle and it jumps to maybe 2000 - nearest town is just outside the 50 square mile circle.

Dang, there's probably 100 on my street.:happyno:

 

[DBoone]

A quick hijack.

At the first means of disconnect, a main panel for example, the neutral/EGC bus bars are connected with a factory installed strap usually. Installation of the bonding screw does not connect EGCs and neutrals as they are already connected via the strap but the screw insures that in the future if a separate EGC bar is added then it is bonded to the supply neutral and also the screw bonds the enclosure to neutral to ensure a fault will clear if ever an ungrounded conductor faulted to the enclosure.

Correct?

 

[kwired]

A quick hijack.

At the first means of disconnect, a main panel for example, the neutral/EGC bus bars are connected with a factory installed strap usually. Installation of the bonding screw does not connect EGCs and neutrals as they are already connected via the strap but the screw insures that in the future if a separate EGC bar is added then it is bonded to the supply neutral and also the screw bonds the enclosure to neutral to ensure a fault will clear if ever an ungrounded conductor faulted to the enclosure.

Correct?

Actually more on topic then past few posts have been.

Not quite able to fully agree with what you said, you are mostly on track but depending on exactly what you are thinking maybe not.

At service equipment grounded conductor and equipment grounding conductor are basically the same point, those connecting bus bars are a part of the grounded conductor bus assembly not a link between grounded and equipment grounding conductors.

The main or system bonding jumper (may be a wire, screw, strap, other metallic component tested/listed with the equipment it is part of, is essentially at the point where we do begin to segregate grounded and equipment grounding conductors.

Anything on the load side of the service disconnecting means enclosure needs the grounded conductor isolated from the equipment grounding conductor. The metal cabinet, metal raceways etc. load side of service disconnecting means enclosure (or first disconnect of a separately derived system) must be connected to equipment grounding conductors, and in most cases can actually be a part of the equipment grounding conductor - but you do not want those items carrying current of the grounded conductor so we do isolate them from grounded conductor so they don't become unintended parallel paths to the grounded conductor.

 

[DBoone]

Actually more on topic then past few posts have been.

Not quite able to fully agree with what you said, you are mostly on track but depending on exactly what you are thinking maybe not.

At service equipment grounded conductor and equipment grounding conductor are basically the same point, those connecting bus bars are a part of the grounded conductor bus assembly not a link between grounded and equipment grounding conductors.

The main or system bonding jumper (may be a wire, screw, strap, other metallic component tested/listed with the equipment it is part of, is essentially at the point where we do begin to segregate grounded and equipment grounding conductors.

Anything on the load side of the service disconnecting means enclosure needs the grounded conductor isolated from the equipment grounding conductor. The metal cabinet, metal raceways etc. load side of service disconnecting means enclosure (or first disconnect of a separately derived system) must be connected to equipment grounding conductors, and in most cases can actually be a part of the equipment grounding conductor - but you do not want those items carrying current of the grounded conductor so we do isolate them from grounded conductor so they don't become unintended parallel paths to the grounded conductor.

We are on the same page I believe.

Take a GE main service panel for instance. The grounded conductors and EGCs are landed on the neutral buses (the buses and strap make up the neutral bus assembly as you pointed out)

So if someone asked me "why do you need to install the bonding screw? The grounds and neutrals are already connected"

My answer would be...

I'm installing the screw to bond the enclosure to the neutral that way a fault will clear if an ungrounded conductor ever contacted the enclosure and also if at a later date someone added circuits and ran out of room on the neutral bus they could install an EGC bus, move some EGCs over to it and those EGCs are bonded to the neutral by the screw.

Did I miss anything?

 

[kwired]

We are on the same page I believe.

Take a GE main service panel for instance. The grounded conductors and EGCs are landed on the neutral buses (the buses and strap make up the neutral bus assembly as you pointed out)

So if someone asked me "why do you need to install the bonding screw? The grounds and neutrals are already connected"

My answer would be...

I'm installing the screw to bond the enclosure to the neutral that way a fault will clear if an ungrounded conductor ever contacted the enclosure and also if at a later date someone added circuits and ran out of room on the neutral bus they could install an EGC bus, move some EGCs over to it and those EGCs are bonded to the neutral by the screw.

Did I miss anything?

Correct you are bonding the enclosure. The bonding jumper is just the starting point for the entire equipment grounding conductor network. Any enclosure ahead of the bonding jumper (primarily dealing with services here) is bonded to the grounded conductor and there is no EGC. At the service equipment they are basically the same thing - except the grounded conductor can not rely on the enclosure as part of it's current path, but the equipment grounding conductor can.