Does volt amps = watts?

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Doesn't have to change anything.

Doesn't have to change anything.

weressl said:
....of course it is WHEN it is LESS than one. Factor means "change". The number 1 does not change anything. It's math.:cool:
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Lazlo, where do you get the notion that "factor" means "change". Certainly not in the definitions you posted. Even prime numbers can be factored with one of the factors being one. In any case, the defintion of power factor does not preclude the values of zero and one.

It would be awfully clumsy if we had to change the power equation if the PF is one or zero!
 
My apologies:

My apologies:

weressl said:
OK, go ahead and arguew with the mathematicians and the dictionary.

You can't redefine English just because it became misused in the vernacular.

Just like my name remains LASZLO regardless how many times you spell it differently.

It is cosine(fi) not theta.
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I have always seen it as "Lazlo", I will spell it correctly from now on.

The choice of symbol is rather arbitrary, I think. Now I did not learn engineering from the dictionary, so I refer to my texts and handbooks for the definition of power factor which includes the cosine function.

I don't have any argument with the mathematicians, they say the cosine varies from -1 to +1, therefore the PF can be one.or zero.

I see no way you can refute that argument.
 
weressl said:
OK, go ahead and arguew with the mathematicians and the dictionary.

You can't redefine English just because it became misused in the vernacular.

Just like my name remains LASZLO regardless how many times you spell it differently.

It is cosine(fi) not theta.
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Well, if one is a non-contributing factor, or otherwise not a factor, I guess readers can disregard any ONE of our posts :grin:
 
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rattus said:
I have always seen it as "Lazlo", I will spell it correctly from now on.

The choice of symbol is rather arbitrary, I think. Now I did not learn engineering from the dictionary, so I refer to my texts and handbooks for the definition of power factor which includes the cosine function.

I don't have any argument with the mathematicians, they say the cosine varies from -1 to +1, therefore the PF can be one.or zero.

I see no way you can refute that argument.
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I don't know how you can see it any differently when replying to my posts since it is part of my signature from day one.

Cosine Fi is the term identified in the Fink&Carrol Standard Hanbook for Electrical Engineers, Section 2 Electric and Magnetic Circuits, Para.159 Power and Power Factor, Sine Waveforms.
"... and Fi (I imposed over O) is the phase angle between the two(E&I), the cos Fi is being known as the power factor of the circuits."

The mathematicians argument is in the formula of expressions. In additions or subtractions when the value is 0, the value is not indicated as it is not germaine to the value of the sum. The same is true to the number 1 in case of multiplication or division. That is why I said, yes and no.
 
Take the formula:

W = I x E x Pf

Given the following parameters:

Amps = 1
Volts = 1
Pf = 1

Solve for Watts.

If we use the argument that 1 cannot be a factor: There is no solution to the above problem because there are no factors, since all the values are 1.
 
weressl said:
I don't know how you can see it any differently when replying to my posts since it is part of my signature from day one.

Cosine Fi is the term identified in the Fink&Carrol Standard Hanbook for Electrical Engineers, Section 2 Electric and Magnetic Circuits, Para.159 Power and Power Factor, Sine Waveforms.
"... and Fi (I imposed over O) is the phase angle between the two(E&I), the cos Fi is being known as the power factor of the circuits."

The mathematicians argument is in the formula of expressions. In additions or subtractions when the value is 0, the value is not indicated as it is not germaine to the value of the sum. The same is true to the number 1 in case of multiplication or division. That is why I said, yes and no.
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Laszlo,
I am emphasizing the point that PF can be 0, 1, or anything in between. No arcane mathematical prinicple can change that fact.

And, I am unaware of any rule which prevents us from using zero or one in our formulas whether they contribute to the result or not.
 
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weressl said:
You can't redefine English just because it became misused in the vernacular.
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The plain English definition of the word factor isn't relevant to this discussion.

We can, and do, "redefine English" by compiling dictionaries of words and phrases used in Scientific, Engineering, Medical, Legal and countless other professions and occupations. Look at all the threads on these boards that revolve around how the NEC defines or uses words.

In this case, we are not discussing the English word factor, we are discussing the technical term Power Factor. Since it is defined as the cosine of the phase angle between the current and voltage, the value certainly can be either 0 or 1. You would not disregard a variable in an equation simply because it has no effect on the result in the unique circumstance where the value of the variable happens to be 1.
 
You can't redefine English just because it became misused in the vernacular.
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Have you seen teh History Channel show The History of the English Language?

And to quotye a famous person (my wife), from Portsmouth English.

I am British and I can tell you what you talking is not English!
 
Well said:

Well said:

Mike03a3 said:
The plain English definition of the word factor isn't relevant to this discussion.

We can, and do, "redefine English" by compiling dictionaries of words and phrases used in Scientific, Engineering, Medical, Legal and countless other professions and occupations. Look at all the threads on these boards that revolve around how the NEC defines or uses words.

In this case, we are not discussing the English word factor, we are discussing the technical term Power Factor. Since it is defined as the cosine of the phase angle between the current and voltage, the value certainly can be either 0 or 1. You would not disregard a variable in an equation simply because it has no effect on the result in the unique circumstance where the value of the variable happens to be 1.
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Well said Mike, however I can't see that the dictionary defintion of "factor" precludes the values of 1 and 0 in the first place.
 
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