I was in Home Depot today and was surprised to see a wire extension kit for ceiling fans. It contained some wire and butt splice crimps. I haven't looked this up in the NEC yet but I would think that splicing conductors in downrods would be a violation, if not poor workmanship. It stated on the package " To be installed by a qualified electrician". Am I wrong here?
downrod splices.
- Thread starter charty
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websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: downrod splices.
You decide!
You decide!
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: downrod splices.
I would say this may be a UL listed accessory kit to a UL listed fan.
As such the NEC would not apply.
I would say this may be a UL listed accessory kit to a UL listed fan.
As such the NEC would not apply.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: downrod splices.
Bob (or others), I have had the debate before about whether a UL listing or the NEC prevail. What do you guys think?
Bob (or others), I have had the debate before about whether a UL listing or the NEC prevail. What do you guys think?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: downrod splices.
Think of a typical dishwasher.
Do you fail the installation of it because of the factory exposed live connections and open conductors enclosed by the floor, cabinet sides and wall?
Think of a typical dishwasher.
Do you fail the installation of it because of the factory exposed live connections and open conductors enclosed by the floor, cabinet sides and wall?
Re: downrod splices.
i would say that if an electrician was in court for an electrical fire with fatalities and was asked "Why didn't you follow NEC requirements?" Then he is in trouble. I don't think that UL would be on the stand.
So I would say that UL has more power, but you better comply with the NEC.It's all about how you use those UL listed products.
i would say that if an electrician was in court for an electrical fire with fatalities and was asked "Why didn't you follow NEC requirements?" Then he is in trouble. I don't think that UL would be on the stand.
So I would say that UL has more power, but you better comply with the NEC.It's all about how you use those UL listed products.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: downrod splices.
So exactly how would you lengthen the wires if needed? :roll:
So exactly how would you lengthen the wires if needed? :roll:
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: downrod splices.
So do you rewire the dishwasher to comply with the NEC?
So do you rewire the dishwasher to comply with the NEC?
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: downrod splices.
Now I didn't say one way or the other if I would red-tag a fan install because of the splice. The truth of the matter is I would never know.
Bob: I've never really looked at the underside of a dishwasher. When I installed mine, there was a nice little enclosed box for the termination of the branch circuit conductors. If the appliance is wired from the factory in a non-compliant manner, it is beyond the scope of the NEC
Now I didn't say one way or the other if I would red-tag a fan install because of the splice. The truth of the matter is I would never know.Bob: I've never really looked at the underside of a dishwasher. When I installed mine, there was a nice little enclosed box for the termination of the branch circuit conductors. If the appliance is wired from the factory in a non-compliant manner, it is beyond the scope of the NEC
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: downrod splices.
Yep they have a nice enclosed box for the field wiring to terminate in.
From there it leaves the box and goes single conductor in free air.
You will also find solenoids and such with exposed terminals.
Now if we agree this is beyond the scope of the NEC why would parts form the factory with instructions on how to install them be any different?
Of course I like Rogers answer best.
Hey I know you where just asking.
Yep they have a nice enclosed box for the field wiring to terminate in.
From there it leaves the box and goes single conductor in free air.
You will also find solenoids and such with exposed terminals.
Now if we agree this is beyond the scope of the NEC why would parts form the factory with instructions on how to install them be any different?
Of course I like Rogers answer best.
In the application we are talking about what would be the problem?
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: downrod splices.
If we are allow to have a splice in surface raceway then what would be the problem?
310.15(A) Wiring Methods with Interior Access. A box or conduit body shall not be required for each splice , junction, switch, pull, termination, or outlet points in wiring methods with removable covers, such as wireways, multioutlet assemblies, auxiliary gutters, and surface raceways . The covers shall be accessible after installation.
If we are allow to have a splice in surface raceway then what would be the problem?
310.15(A) Wiring Methods with Interior Access. A box or conduit body shall not be required for each splice , junction, switch, pull, termination, or outlet points in wiring methods with removable covers, such as wireways, multioutlet assemblies, auxiliary gutters, and surface raceways . The covers shall be accessible after installation.
stamcon
Senior Member
- Location
- South San Francisco CA
Re: downrod splices.
Once the wires leave the ceiling box(hopefully there is one), aren't the wires now part of the fixture and not under NEC rules for splices? I would think the downrod is part of the fixture and not a surface raceway, etc. Personally I would pull new conductors and not splice in the rod.
steve
[ December 11, 2003, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: stamcon ]
Once the wires leave the ceiling box(hopefully there is one), aren't the wires now part of the fixture and not under NEC rules for splices? I would think the downrod is part of the fixture and not a surface raceway, etc. Personally I would pull new conductors and not splice in the rod.
steve
[ December 11, 2003, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: stamcon ]
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: downrod splices.
I'm wondering if the extension wires with the butt splices are intended to be spliced inside of the downrod, or in the motor housing? I would think inside of the motor housing. When you assemble a fan, you have to run the conductors through the downrod, whether it's 10 feet or 4 inches. I think you have plenty of room to splice without doing it illegally.
Is anyone going to die over it? No.
Can a code compliant installtion be done easily? Yes.
I also like Roger's answer though.
I'm wondering if the extension wires with the butt splices are intended to be spliced inside of the downrod, or in the motor housing? I would think inside of the motor housing. When you assemble a fan, you have to run the conductors through the downrod, whether it's 10 feet or 4 inches. I think you have plenty of room to splice without doing it illegally.
Is anyone going to die over it? No.
Can a code compliant installtion be done easily? Yes.
I also like Roger's answer though.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: downrod splices.
A surface raceway you may want to add to / fish etc.
There is nothing you could or would want to do in this down rod without dropping the fan.
I know I would do it with out a second thought.
IMO that is a different issue.
A surface raceway you may want to add to / fish etc.
There is nothing you could or would want to do in this down rod without dropping the fan.
I know I would do it with out a second thought.
bill addiss
Senior Member
Re: downrod splices.
Personally, I would consider the Downrod as being part of the Fixture. There are already splices in many Fixtures that are only accessible after dismantling it.
Bill
Personally, I would consider the Downrod as being part of the Fixture. There are already splices in many Fixtures that are only accessible after dismantling it.
Bill
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: downrod splices.
Bob
The dishwasher open wiring that you speak of is not installed by the electrician. The wiring for the down rod most certainly is not wired by the manufacturer, therefore I say the NEC has plenty to say about it. Ryan's last post is quite accurate in that the conductors should be spliced not in the rod, but the canopy of the fan.
Pierre
Bob
The dishwasher open wiring that you speak of is not installed by the electrician. The wiring for the down rod most certainly is not wired by the manufacturer, therefore I say the NEC has plenty to say about it. Ryan's last post is quite accurate in that the conductors should be spliced not in the rod, but the canopy of the fan.
Pierre
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: downrod splices.
I do not agree with you Pierre if this is a UL listed kit provided by the manufacturer and the instructions say splice in the rod then the NEC is not involved.
Say you buy an ice maker kit to add to your freezer, do think the wiring you are doing would be under the NEC?
I do not agree with you Pierre if this is a UL listed kit provided by the manufacturer and the instructions say splice in the rod then the NEC is not involved.
Say you buy an ice maker kit to add to your freezer, do think the wiring you are doing would be under the NEC?
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