downrod splices.

hurk27 · Dec 12, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Speaking of splices a few years ago I was getting 10/2 romex from South Wire that had butt splices under the outer jacket. we had a few failures at this point and I showed it to our local AHJ he couldn't belive his eyes when he saw it. he asked for every sample I had he said that he will contact NFPA about it. The next time I saw him he told me that they were allowed to do this. he said this was appaling as he even seen the ones that burned open That could of caused a fire. But this was romex not a ridge metal pipe for a down rod.

pierre · Dec 12, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

I have installed my fair share of downrods, and in every case, the wire provided by the manufacturer was long enough to reach the ceiling box, usually cutting off extra length as it would overcrowd the box. I am not saying that there are some manufacturers that do not send the downrod with shorter wire, there are always cheap models of fans on the market. I still do not see how this could be a listed product, but maybe so.
I will agree with both Bob and Roger that if it is shipped in that fashion and listed it could be installed as such. I would not be comfortable with that though.

Pierre

jimwalker · Dec 12, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

The problem of short wires usually stem from your man forgot the down rod.Now what can we do ?or can you hang this fan we brought from the house we sold.Got to bend a little in this.We can't throw the fan out over this.Seen and done it often with orange wire nuts ,not a big deal,it wont cause a fire that leaves the pipe.Avoid the problem and always ask before you start,
1. do you have a down rod (attach to box with tape)right color? length?
2. if convertable ,do you want to use a down rod?
3. what side of blade shows
4.is there a light kit
All part of your job and saves you from doing a splice or rehang.
If the kit is UL then i think you gotta allow it

charty · Dec 12, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

that would be great jim walker, in a perfect world. where the owner or customer doesn't change their mind 5 times or move a fan to a different location after the installation.
How about troubleshooting a ceiling fan or a light kit not working. You might want to take the fan down and remove the downrod because the may or not be a splice in it.

roger · Dec 12, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Hasn't any one else here hung a fan on a 10', 15', or even 20' extension?

I have had to do this in some homes and quite a few in commercial bldgs, namely restaurants.

The real challenge here is blade balancing, a small wobble on a 4" down rod is greatly magnified at these lengths.

Roger

pierre · Dec 13, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Roger
You are right about the wobble on long stemmed fans. Those balancing kits are not much fun and can be time consuming. One thing I have noticed of late is the fans seem to be better balanced on these stems than in the past

The real problem with hanging some of these fans is reaching the ceiling - to hang a fan, you need to install scaffolding.... Yes mame, we have to charge you $1000 to hang your $400 fan! That is always fun to explain.

Pierre

jimwalker · Dec 13, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

i Hang them once, if they hate them after it's up we charge T and M I try to set the box in the room it's going in while customer is there.Or get the GC to mark the box.Guessing that this goes in a certain room NO WAY stays in box till it's approved.
How about this tuffy you install 3 out of 4 coach lights and at 4th you open carton and find broken fixture.You guessed it ,there are no more available.Who pays to exchange the 3 already installed? I been doing res.homes for 20 years
there is always something broken, missing,defective,or wrong color.We try to never supply fixtures ,the liability and warranty are not worth that markup.They supply and it's defective ,we charge to remove and 2nd trip to install again.We supply and the thing is free.

wildman · Dec 13, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

come on folks....yall really are something! charty has a simple problem with a fan and yall can't come up with a solution...you argue back and forth a while then you avoid the subject by talking about balancing that wobbly thing! charty, the home depot folks have seen this kind of thing day in and day out...go back and ask them....no arguing...either they know or they don't!

canadian · Dec 13, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Yes the Flunkie at home Depot will know the answer :roll:

charty · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

i wouldn't ask those people anything about codes. they are going to tell you anything to sell something.

[ December 14, 2003, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: charty ]

gwz2 · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Is there not a small chamber ( etc ) at each end of the downrod (tube) that terminations/splices may be made ?

The few (paddel) fans that I have seen, do.

Splicing inside of a non accessible raceway is a violation.

I do not believe 300.15(I) covers this 'thread' question.

gwz2

iwire · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Originally posted by gwz2:
Splicing inside of a non accessible raceway is a violation.

Yes it is a violation if it is a raceway covered by the NEC, as it is part of a UL listed assembly and the directions say splice in the downrod, all is fine is it not?

[ December 14, 2003, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

roger · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Glenn, when a 10' section of RMC is threaded into a Hunter fan, and then suspended from a damper, is it a raceway or a part of the fixture?

Roger

iwire · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Roger people are going to think we are on the phone with each other if we keep posting the same message at the same time.

roger · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Hey Bob, I'm trailing behind though.

I'm going to have to work on my speed typing.

Roger

electricmanscott · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

I am going out to my truck to look at the downrod wiring extension kit.

al hildenbrand · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Glenn,

Is there not a small chamber ( etc ) at each end of the downrod. . .?

Not really. Above, yes, clearly, in the j-box, but not at the lower end. The downrod threads into the top of the motor housing. The conductors in the downrod are threaded through the motor to its underside (in most assemblies) to the small housing designed to accept a light kit. This small housing contains the speed electronics and reversing switch, covering and securing the lower end of the downrod conductors. While I probably could get at the tywraps and splices and redo them by way of replacing short downrod conductors with longer, I don't think the kit being discussed requires it.

hurk27 · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

I cant see a problem when irreversable crimp connections are used that have insulation that exceeds the wire on the fan. Does the NEC or UL reconize crimp type connectors as a meens of splice that would be ok? Well it does for grounding wires and what I posted on the 10/2 this is the same thing I was told in that issue.

wildman · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

still waiting for electricmanscott to get back from his truck with the directions for the downrod splice kit....always read the directions first!

iwire · Dec 14, 2003

Re: downrod splices.

Originally posted by wildman:
...always read the directions first!

Is that before or after asking the help at the big box store?

downrod splices.

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