Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity

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vikram_gupta11

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mgookin said:
so you have a 3V motor turning a crankshaft that moves a seesaw.
On each side of the seesaw you have "flashlights" that generate power.

I think someone already asked you this, but how much "power" does it take to generate "power" in each flashlight?
And don't try to sell us on the fact that it's balanced and that makes it "free power" because there is no such thing.

If we're not understanding your concept, the drawings you have provided are a significant part of the reason for that. Your drawings seem to conflict. I suggest you produce a set of drawings with top, front and side views and indicate motion. With that create a free body diagram and from that you can calculate forces. If the output is greater than the input, you win!
Click to expand...

see this sketch
 

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GoldDigger

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If the arm and lights are balanced and remain in balance for small displacements, it will not take much energy from the motor to move the arm very very very slowly.
But to shake the flashlight you need to move the arm fast. To move the arm fast, the force needed is proportional to the total mass of the flashlights and the arm, not to the unbalanced mass.

Think instead of a wheel, with flashlights attached all round the rim.
It will stay perfectly balanced, except for the fact that the magnet moves back and forth as each light goes past the top or the bottom. So let's lock the magnets in place for the moment.
You can slowly accelerate the wheel in one direction with very little force, and the speed will keep increasing until friction matches the force you are applying.
But to shake the wheel back and forth rapidly instead of turning in one direction, take a lot of force, which is proportional to the mass of the wheel. Adding more flashlights makes it harder to shake.

I will now give you a new idea to think about, for free:

Unlock the magnets and keep the wheel turning in only one direction. The magnets will now fall down on one side and back on the other side as the wheel spins. Now I am getting power out without putting any energy at all in, right?

Guess what, that will not work either, but it is much harder to figure out exactly why it does not work. :happyyes:
 
ActionDave

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GoldDigger said:
If the arm and lights are balanced and remain in balance for small displacements, it will not take much energy from the motor to move the arm very very very slowly.
But to shake the flashlight you need to move the arm fast. To move the arm fast, the force needed is proportional to the total mass of the flashlights and the arm, not to the unbalanced mass.

Think instead of a wheel, with flashlights attached all round the rim.
It will stay perfectly balanced, except for the fact that the magnet moves back and forth as each light goes past the top or the bottom. So let's lock the magnets in place for the moment.
You can slowly accelerate the wheel in one direction with very little force, and the speed will keep increasing until friction matches the force you are applying.
But to shake the wheel back and forth rapidly instead of turning in one direction, take a lot of force, which is proportional to the mass of the wheel. Adding more flashlights makes it harder to shake.

I will now give you a new idea to think about, for free:

Unlock the magnets and keep the wheel turning in only one direction. The magnets will now fall down on one side and back on the other side as the wheel spins. Now I am getting power out without putting any energy at all in, right?

Guess what, that will not work either, but it is much harder to figure out exactly why it does not work. :happyyes:
Click to expand...
That's really good. :thumbsup:
 
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vikram_gupta11

Member
Location
india
GoldDigger said:
If the arm and lights are balanced and remain in balance for small displacements, it will not take much energy from the motor to move the arm very very very slowly.
But to shake the flashlight you need to move the arm fast. To move the arm fast, the force needed is proportional to the total mass of the flashlights and the arm, not to the unbalanced mass.

Think instead of a wheel, with flashlights attached all round the rim.
It will stay perfectly balanced, except for the fact that the magnet moves back and forth as each light goes past the top or the bottom. So let's lock the magnets in place for the moment.
You can slowly accelerate the wheel in one direction with very little force, and the speed will keep increasing until friction matches the force you are applying.
But to shake the wheel back and forth rapidly instead of turning in one direction, take a lot of force, which is proportional to the mass of the wheel. Adding more flashlights makes it harder to shake.

I will now give you a new idea to think about, for free:

Unlock the magnets and keep the wheel turning in only one direction. The magnets will now fall down on one side and back on the other side as the wheel spins. Now I am getting power out without putting any energy at all in, right?

Guess what, that will not work either, but it is much harder to figure out exactly why it does not work. :happyyes:
Click to expand...

At first you are not correct as you again forgetting seesaw mechanism and LEVER system. suppose there are ten wind mills in a wind farm and each is getting same amount of force (wind energy) then all ten wind mills will rotate equally as each is getting equal amount of energy.

So in this system each flashlight is getting equal amount of force for shaking so why it shouldn't work.further more we can use F=ma and in this equation if mass is equal and acceleration is same then force will be same and remember these flashlight are attached horizontally and shaking side by side and in your example we will have to apply more force to lift the magnets to move pass the coil but in my concept there is no need of extra force .
 
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vikram_gupta11

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Location
india
GoldDigger said:
If I think beyond the Law of Gravity, will I float into the air? :happyno:
Click to expand...

off course you will float if there is no gravity as thinking has no limit..:lol:
Your example of wheel and my design has so much difference. to turn a 4 kilogram (including mass of flashlights) balanced seesaw in 3 centimeter(thrice a second) there is need of only .36 newton force ,there fore I say that mass is not a big issue in this design but the main issue is sliding of magnet to move pass the coil. suppose a coil+ magnets system require 10 watt to shake so that it could counter the Lenz's law then this 10 watt + .36 watt(newton)+ .50(watt) = 11 watt will be sufficient to shake all 10 no. flashlights or coil+magnet system.if a coil +magnet system 's output is only 5 watt then we can get 50 watt out put with these total 10 no. coil+ magnet systems and input will be only 11 watt.That's what I want to say.
furtheremore if we replace coil+magnets with 10 people then these ten people will move or turn when we will shake or turn the arm of seesaw.
when this 11 watt force will applied on the arm of seesaw then every coil+magnet system will work as this 11 watt will be equally distribute in all these coil+magnet system.

IF A OBJECT IS IN STATIONARY POSITION THEN THE MOVEMENT WILL DEPEND ON THE FORCE THAT HOW MUCH FORCE WE ARE APPLYING ON IT .IT WILL MOVE SLOWLY IF WE APPLY LOW FORCE AND WILL MOVE FASTLY IF WE APPLY FORCE VIGOROUSLY ON IT.
 
iwire

iwire

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vikram_gupta11 said:
off course you will float if there is no gravity as thinking has no limit..:lol:
Your example of wheel and my design has so much difference. to turn a 4 kilogram (including mass of flashlights) balanced seesaw in 3 centimeter(thrice a second) there is need of only .36 newton force ,there fore I say that mass is not a big issue in this design but the main issue is sliding of magnet to move pass the coil. suppose a coil+ magnets system require 10 watt to shake so that it could counter the Lenz's law then this 10 watt + .36 watt(newton)+ .50(watt) = 11 watt will be sufficient to shake all 10 no. flashlights or coil+magnet system.if a coil +magnet system 's output is only 5 watt then we can get 50 watt out put with these total 10 no. coil+ magnet systems and input will be only 11 watt.That's what I want to say.
furtheremore if we replace coil+magnets with 10 people then these ten people will move or turn when we will shake or turn the arm of seesaw.
when this 11 watt force will applied on the arm of seesaw then every coil+magnet system will work as this 11 watt will be equally distribute in all these coil+magnet system.

IF A OBJECT IS IN STATIONARY POSITION THEN THE MOVEMENT WILL DEPEND ON THE FORCE THAT HOW MUCH FORCE WE ARE APPLYING ON IT .IT WILL MOVE SLOWLY IF WE APPLY LOW FORCE AND WILL MOVE FASTLY IF WE APPLY FORCE VIGOROUSLY ON IT.
Click to expand...


7dd1cabd231aedc2384e00f3781251bc845351859943610258efbf4dcb3f1d2f.jpg
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Vikram you seem to be so sure about this so why not build it-- if it works you can patent it and make millions....What is stopping you from doing this.
 
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