Dual energy generation with magnetic seesaw system and gravity

[vikram_gupta11]

The toy balls, do they also have a coil and magnet to produce the energy to make them light, or do they already have an internal power source like a battery and all your movement does is make a switch close, possibly only momentarily and any flashing that happens is a programmed function once the start signal has been received?

And your balanced sea-saw, it may only take a limited amount of energy to start it in motion, what happens to that energy when it reaches the end of the one way travel distance? Assume no frictional losses at all in the pivot point - you still crash all the inertia into whatever stops the one way movement and then have to accelerate it in the opposite direction to continue operation. Crashing that inertia into a spring would be of some help, you transfer the energy to the spring and then is transfers it back when pushing the other direction, but you will still have some losses in there, they may be more difficult to measure on this small of a scale but they are there.

Dear Sir,
you are right that this system will work to multiply the force but suppose input power is 10+watt(11watt = 1 watt to counter mechanical loss.) and all 10 NUMBERED flashlights are shaking with equal power input as in this system force is multiplying but remember that energy will be generated with flashlights not with seesaw arm and each flashlights has a SEPARATE CIRCUIT so each flashlight will be produced 5 watt output and all over output will be 50 watt. The seesaw arm will work only to distribute equal amount of input in each flashlight but each flashlight has a separate circuit so it will generate separate energy OTHERWISE WHATS THE BENEFIT OF TAKING SEESAW SYSTEM?
it doesn't matter wheather it turns up and down or side by side.


EQUAL INPUT BUT GENERATE OUTPUT SEPARATELY.

 

[kwired]

Dear Sir,
you are right that this system will work to multiply the force but suppose input power is 10+watt(11watt = 1 watt to counter mechanical loss.) and all 10 NUMBERED flashlights are shaking with equal power input as in this system force is multiplying but remember that energy will be generated with flashlights not with seesaw arm and each flashlights has a SEPARATE CIRCUIT so each flashlight will be produced 5 watt output and all over output will be 50 watt. The seesaw arm will work only to distribute equal amount of input in each flashlight but each flashlight has a separate circuit so it will generate separate energy OTHERWISE WHATS THE BENEFIT OF TAKING SEESAW SYSTEM?
it doesn't matter wheather it turns up and down or side by side.


EQUAL INPUT BUT GENERATE OUTPUT SEPARATELY.

It may take one watt to move the mass of the magnet, but now put a 5 watt load on the coil and you will need five more input watts to push against the counter force imposed by the coil. Those free electrons of the conductor don't just flow through the load circuit because it is a closed loop, they need energy to push them. You will not get more energy out then you put in, and after figuring in any friction or other inefficiencies you will get less out then you put in.

 

[ggunn]

It may take one watt to move the mass of the magnet, but now put a 5 watt load on the coil and you will need five more input watts to push against the counter force imposed by the coil. Those free electrons of the conductor don't just flow through the load circuit because it is a closed loop, they need energy to push them. You will not get more energy out then you put in, and after figuring in any friction or other inefficiencies you will get less out then you put in.

I believe that we are all now collectively blue in the face.

 

[junkhound]

Dear Sir,
you are right that this system will work to multiply the force but suppose input power is 10+watt(11watt = 1 watt to counter mechanical loss.) and all 10 NUMBERED flashlights are shaking with equal power input as in this system force is multiplying but remember that energy will be generated with flashlights not with seesaw arm and each flashlights has a SEPARATE CIRCUIT so each flashlight will be produced 5 watt output and all over output will be 50 watt. The seesaw arm will work only to distribute equal amount of input in each flashlight but each flashlight has a separate circuit so it will generate separate energy OTHERWISE WHATS THE BENEFIT OF TAKING SEESAW SYSTEM?
it doesn't matter wheather it turns up and down or side by side.


EQUAL INPUT BUT GENERATE OUTPUT SEPARATELY.

One has to admit this thread is quite an education in the varied thought processes of different people :ashamed1:

 

[growler]

One has to admit this thread is quite an education in the varied thought processes of different people :ashamed1:

Yes, I don't think we are going to find any free energy ( where would it come from?) only better ways to harness what's already available.

 

[Ultrafault]

I believe that we are all now collectively blue in the face.

Too true.

 

[vikram_gupta11]

Not if you do the calculation correctly.

And by net force you really should say integral of force times distance over a closed path.

Dear Sir,
I'm going to make a working model and present it before this forum that what I want to say.I,m trying to get four flashlights and when I get it I will build it and prove it.

 

[Besoeker]

but now put a 5 watt load on the coil and you will need five more input watts to push against the counter force imposed by the coil.

That point seems to be consistently missed or ignored by the OP.

 

[vikram_gupta11]

That point seems to be consistently missed or ignored by the OP.

I have mentioned this point many times that counter to lenz's law we will have to apply more input.

I explain it.

A common flashlight required input is 2 watt when will apply 2 watt then it will be glowed up. There are 10 no. flashlights mounted on a beam and we are turning the one side arm in horizontal direction.The overall weight of this seesaw is 4 kilogram and the speed to turning the seesaw arm is .03 centimeter/second(Thrice in a second).
Now used the F=ma equation m=4kg and a=.03*3 =ma=0.36 watt,the input is 0.36 watt but it will be not sufficient for flashlights to glow up as each flashlight want 2 watt input to counter lenz law So I add 2 watt more and now input is 2+ .36 watt and more 1 watt to counter mechanical loss so now total input is now 3.36 watt.
when we will apply this 3.36 watt input in seesaw arm then all 10 numbered flashlight will be start to shaking after consuming this input as this input will be distributed equally in all flashlights or in otherwords 3.36*10= 33.6watt and if each flashlight output is only 1 watt then overall output will be 10 watt which will be greater than input.

Input= 3.36 watt
each flashlight getting input=3.36 watt
10 flashlight getting input=33.6 watt
each flashlight output=1 watt
10 numbered flashlights output=10 watt
there will be no need of of applying 10 time more force or input in this design only one time 3.36 watt input will be sufficient for all 10 numbered flashlights due to this design as it will work to multiply the force.

 

[vikram_gupta11]

No it's you who does not understand.

There are people on here who are capable and willing, at no cost to you, to analyze, calculate and explain what the net forces will be, and you have continually failed to produce what was requested of you.

Top, front and side views with arrows indicating motion and forces. Can you do that? If not, find someone who can. You have failed to communicate your concept with sufficient detail for someone qualified to provide an opinion.

You keep saying seesaw but yet you say it does not go up and down. Then it's not a seesaw. Is it a reciprocating turnstile? What is it?

But before you even go through all of that work, do you understand that it takes energy to push a magnet through a coil to produce an electric field? It sounds like you think it's free to push the flashlights back and forth, or up and down, whichever direction you're trying to move these flashlights to produce power.

Another consideration is this is a National Electric Code forum. The primary objective of this forum is wiring buildings and facilities in compliance with the National Electric Code. Your concept is more suitable for PhysicsForums or similar. Have you taken it there? No matter where you take your concept, if you can't explain it, you're wasting everyone's time.

I have mentioned this point many times that counter to lenz's law we will have to apply more input.

I explain it.

A common flashlight required input is 2 watt when will apply 2 watt then it will be glowed up. There are 10 no. flashlights mounted on a beam and we are turning the one side arm in horizontal direction.The overall weight of this seesaw is 4 kilogram and the speed to turning the seesaw arm is .03 centimeter/second(Thrice in a second).
Now used the F=ma equation m=4kg and a=.03*3 =ma=0.36 watt,the input is 0.36 watt but it will be not sufficient for flashlights to glow up as each flashlight want 2 watt input to counter lenz law So I add 2 watt more and now input is 2+ .36 watt and more 1 watt to counter mechanical loss so now total input is now 3.36 watt.
when we will apply this 3.36 watt input in seesaw arm then all 10 numbered flashlight will be start to shaking after consuming this input as this input will be distributed equally in all flashlights or in otherwords 3.36*10= 33.6watt and if each flashlight output is only 1 watt then overall output will be 10 watt which will be greater than input.

Input= 3.36 watt
each flashlight getting input=3.36 watt
10 flashlight getting input=33.6 watt
each flashlight output=1 watt
10 numbered flashlights output=10 watt
there will be no need of of applying 10 time more force or input in this design only one time 3.36 watt input will be sufficient for all 10 numbered flashlights due to this design as it will work to multiply the force.

 

[Besoeker]

I have mentioned this point many times that counter to lenz's law we will have to apply more input.

So you agree - no free energy. Progress is being made.

 

[ptonsparky]

Interesting thread although painfully frustrating to watch it develop.

 

[kwired]

You may or may not make something more efficient then anything already out there, but you will not make something that has more output then input.

 

[dkidd]

Interesting thread although painfully frustrating to watch it develop.

Develop? Its been bouncing off the wall.

 

[ggunn]

I have mentioned this point many times that counter to lenz's law we will have to apply more input.

I explain it.

A common flashlight required input is 2 watt when will apply 2 watt then it will be glowed up. There are 10 no. flashlights mounted on a beam and we are turning the one side arm in horizontal direction.The overall weight of this seesaw is 4 kilogram and the speed to turning the seesaw arm is .03 centimeter/second(Thrice in a second).
Now used the F=ma equation m=4kg and a=.03*3 =ma=0.36 watt,the input is 0.36 watt but it will be not sufficient for flashlights to glow up as each flashlight want 2 watt input to counter lenz law So I add 2 watt more and now input is 2+ .36 watt and more 1 watt to counter mechanical loss so now total input is now 3.36 watt.
when we will apply this 3.36 watt input in seesaw arm then all 10 numbered flashlight will be start to shaking after consuming this input as this input will be distributed equally in all flashlights or in otherwords 3.36*10= 33.6watt and if each flashlight output is only 1 watt then overall output will be 10 watt which will be greater than input.

Input= 3.36 watt
each flashlight getting input=3.36 watt
10 flashlight getting input=33.6 watt
each flashlight output=1 watt
10 numbered flashlights output=10 watt
there will be no need of of applying 10 time more force or input in this design only one time 3.36 watt input will be sufficient for all 10 numbered flashlights due to this design as it will work to multiply the force.

In a word: No.

It matters not how much of a Rube Goldberg machine you build or how you try to obfuscate the energy flow by cutting it up into tiny pieces and shuffling it around, energy outflow will be less than energy inflow. Each little subsystem you set up will have a net negative energy yield; there is no way you can combine the negative numbers to get a positive one.

I understand the attraction, I really do, of thinking you can swoop in like a superhero with no understanding of the underlying physics and turn the established scientific community on its head, but it is nothing more than hubris.

 

[wwhitney]

Input= 3.36 watt
each flashlight getting input=3.36 watt
10 flashlight getting input=33.6 watt

Well there's your problem.

If your input is 3.36 watts, and you have 10 flashlights, each one gets 0.336 watts (ignoring losses). If you want each one to get 3.36 watts, you need to input 33.6 watts.

Your seesaw arrangement can't and won't multiply the input power tenfold for free.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[ggunn]

Ride My Seesaw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iss9xKyqAeA

 

[vikram_gupta11]

Well there's your problem.

If your input is 3.36 watts, and you have 10 flashlights, each one gets 0.336 watts (ignoring losses). If you want each one to get 3.36 watts, you need to input 33.6 watts.

Your seesaw arrangement can't and won't multiply the input power tenfold for free.

Cheers, Wayne

if a person who is driving a car with the speed of 60 kilometer/hour then as per your calculation person's speed will be only 6 kilometer/hour not 60 km/hour and if you say so then you also violate the newton's law.if a object is attached with a system then it becomes a part of the system and now becoming part it will get as much speed as system get.so when we will shake the arm of seesaw or input is 3.36 watt FORCE then these all flashlights will get 3.36 watt FORCE not 0.336 watt FORCE as these have become a part of this system.

TAKE THIS WATT AS A INPUT FORCE NOT AS A INPUT ELECTRICITY.

Now I hope that how I will multiply the force for free.

 

[mike_kilroy]

...you will not make something that has more output then input.

Certainly this is what we were all taught in school. Those 'crazy' dudes who experiment may someday find we were taught wrong?

Until someone identifies WHAT gravity really is, I do not believe anyone will develop any greater than unity gravity driven gadget.

But with PM showing force is only normal to the attractive or repulsive other surface, and 0 force perpendicular, I believe someone will figure how to utilize this to their advantage... Since no one knows where that force really comes from, why not keep trying to exploit it?

I encourage the far out wizards? gurus? thinkers-outside-the-box? weirdos? to continue trying. No skin off my back, and if it continues to put R&D bucks in my pocket for my added work...

 

[kwired]

if a person who is driving a car with the speed of 60 kilometer/hour then as per your calculation person's speed will be only 6 kilometer/hour not 60 km/hour and if you say so then you also violate the newton's law.if a object is attached with a system then it becomes a part of the system and now becoming part it will get as much speed as system get.so when we will shake the arm of seesaw or input is 3.36 watt FORCE then these all flashlights will get 3.36 watt FORCE not 0.336 watt FORCE as these have become a part of this system.

TAKE THIS WATT AS A INPUT FORCE NOT AS A INPUT ELECTRICITY.

Now I hope that how I will multiply the force for free.

If a person is driving a car at 60 km/hr, then it takes a certain amount of energy to accelerate and maintain the mass of the car at that speed. If you add passengers (more mass), it takes more energy to accelerate and maintain that same speed.

If a passenger is 5% of the total mass then 5% of the total energy input was imposed on that passenger - this is disregarding inefficiencies.

Ever noticed that it takes more fuel to take a loaded truck on a trip then to drive the same trip with the truck empty?