I have had some EC tell me that "You don't need to twist the wire together the W/N does it" I have always twisted the wires together and when I found a recessed can with at least 2' of the NM burned because of a loose connection it just makes me!!!! Is it slower to Twist vs Just Spin?
Econmics vs workmanship
- Thread starter rrrusty
- Start date
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I have had some EC tell me that "You don't need to twist the wire together the W/N does it" I have always twisted the wires together and when I found a recessed can with at least 2' of the NM burned because of a loose connection it just makes me!!!! Is it slower to Twist vs Just Spin?
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
I have twisted every connection I've ever made and I will until the day I die. I think it is slower, but not by much. I also think that the peace of mind that comes with knowing your wires aren't going to jump out of the wire nut is well worth the extra 10 seconds it takes.
I have twisted every connection I've ever made and I will until the day I die. I think it is slower, but not by much. I also think that the peace of mind that comes with knowing your wires aren't going to jump out of the wire nut is well worth the extra 10 seconds it takes.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
Where do you draw the line on twisting? I've found it ineffective beyond three conductors. It's not a UL requirement. You can't do it on every connection. Why bother? Just kidding-- I think a twist is a good thing-- for the first few conductors. Of course it's useless with stranded. With stranded the best we can do is strip enough that the wire-nut doesn't walk on the insulation and push itself off the wire. I wonder if high-pressure clamp-ons (compression) wire connectors would be better? Like they use for AL wire.
[ September 17, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: awwt ]
Where do you draw the line on twisting? I've found it ineffective beyond three conductors. It's not a UL requirement. You can't do it on every connection. Why bother? Just kidding-- I think a twist is a good thing-- for the first few conductors. Of course it's useless with stranded. With stranded the best we can do is strip enough that the wire-nut doesn't walk on the insulation and push itself off the wire. I wonder if high-pressure clamp-ons (compression) wire connectors would be better? Like they use for AL wire.
[ September 17, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: awwt ]
bclymer
Member
- Location
- Nichols, NY.
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
YES,YES,YES,YES,YES - Twist it all! I WILL PUT IT POINT BLANK - IF YOU DO NOT TWIST YOUR NOT AN ELECTRICIAN.
[ September 17, 2003, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: bclymer ]
YES,YES,YES,YES,YES - Twist it all! I WILL PUT IT POINT BLANK - IF YOU DO NOT TWIST YOUR NOT AN ELECTRICIAN.
[ September 17, 2003, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: bclymer ]
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
I don't think I'd go that far.
gregoryelectricinc
Senior Member
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
I am guilty of being a "Twister".lol. Always have been and always will be. I have been left in the dark and other similar mishaps while on trouble calls by the "no-twisters" of this world. Would you all please step forward to receive yout butt-chewing now???
I am guilty of being a "Twister".lol. Always have been and always will be. I have been left in the dark and other similar mishaps while on trouble calls by the "no-twisters" of this world. Would you all please step forward to receive yout butt-chewing now???
cselectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
As a rule I always twist. The only exception is when splicing a solid conductor to a stranded one. In that one situation twisting is pointless and can actually work against you.
As to stranded wire, I have to disagree with you AWWT. I've always twisted 'em. You lay a set of Klines across a stranded splice and twist with good firm gripping pressure and you get a splice that's damn near impossible to take apart without using the old linemans again.
As a rule I always twist. The only exception is when splicing a solid conductor to a stranded one. In that one situation twisting is pointless and can actually work against you.
As to stranded wire, I have to disagree with you AWWT. I've always twisted 'em. You lay a set of Klines across a stranded splice and twist with good firm gripping pressure and you get a splice that's damn near impossible to take apart without using the old linemans again.
Ed MacLaren
Senior Member
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
I always twist too, but I let the wire-nut do the twisting.
I believe that the wires will conform to the tapered shape of the threaded insert, permitting the threads to get a better grip on the wires.
When the wires are twisted with "linemans", the result is a cylindrical shape. This has a tendency to distort the tapered wire-nut insert, when it is put on.
Ed
I always twist too, but I let the wire-nut do the twisting.
I believe that the wires will conform to the tapered shape of the threaded insert, permitting the threads to get a better grip on the wires.
When the wires are twisted with "linemans", the result is a cylindrical shape. This has a tendency to distort the tapered wire-nut insert, when it is put on.
Ed
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
I say twisting is the best way to go, I know the wire nut is for mechanical connection as well as insulation but I feel with twisting you are getting better surface area contact.
Plus nothing is worse than taken a device out of a JB and have a wire nut or two fall off and loose wires because the person before did not crank down on the wirenut.
Nothing worse than saying where do these wires go
I say twisting is the best way to go, I know the wire nut is for mechanical connection as well as insulation but I feel with twisting you are getting better surface area contact.
Plus nothing is worse than taken a device out of a JB and have a wire nut or two fall off and loose wires because the person before did not crank down on the wirenut.
Nothing worse than saying where do these wires go
wayne123
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
I twist everything. I was taught to do that and I always will.I think of a wirenut as just a cap for protection against shocks and shorts.when making joints with solid wire and stranded I always strip the stranded wire about a 1/4 inch longer than the solid and matcth up the stripped insul.edges together so that the strnded wire willextend out further than the solid. This way the stranded will fold over the solid wire and make good contact. Then I tighten the wirenut as tight as I can.
I twist everything. I was taught to do that and I always will.I think of a wirenut as just a cap for protection against shocks and shorts.when making joints with solid wire and stranded I always strip the stranded wire about a 1/4 inch longer than the solid and matcth up the stripped insul.edges together so that the strnded wire willextend out further than the solid. This way the stranded will fold over the solid wire and make good contact. Then I tighten the wirenut as tight as I can.
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
Always been a twister also. Even when I have to add a conductor to a splice I remove the wire nut and untwist the existing conductors slightly. I then "lay in" the new conductor to conform to the twists. I twist everything up again with my Kleins and use a NEW wire nut even though in this case it's not necessary.
Brings up another point. How many of us reuse wire nuts? When I was starting out I worked for a guy who never threw away anything. He saved all the old wire nuts and made me use them. Ever try to put two #14's together with a wirenut that previously was used on something like three #12's?
Always been a twister also. Even when I have to add a conductor to a splice I remove the wire nut and untwist the existing conductors slightly. I then "lay in" the new conductor to conform to the twists. I twist everything up again with my Kleins and use a NEW wire nut even though in this case it's not necessary.
Brings up another point. How many of us reuse wire nuts? When I was starting out I worked for a guy who never threw away anything. He saved all the old wire nuts and made me use them. Ever try to put two #14's together with a wirenut that previously was used on something like three #12's?
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
I never re-used wire nuts but for a different reason...I used to keep two or three in my teeth when I did make up and I didn't want some 20 year old wire nut in my mouth!
I never re-used wire nuts but for a different reason...I used to keep two or three in my teeth when I did make up and I didn't want some 20 year old wire nut in my mouth!
bclymer
Member
- Location
- Nichols, NY.
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
What?
What?
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
Twister here. I have done to many service calls on splices that were on the verge of if not have cause fires from loose untwisted splices. Once you get the hang of twisting it doesn't take any longer. Once you wrestle the untwisted and finally get them in the nut you have taken just as long as us twisters have for the more secure splice.
Twister here. I have done to many service calls on splices that were on the verge of if not have cause fires from loose untwisted splices. Once you get the hang of twisting it doesn't take any longer. Once you wrestle the untwisted and finally get them in the nut you have taken just as long as us twisters have for the more secure splice.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
Twister also. If you read the manf. specs they say "not" to pretwist.
Mike P.
Twister also. If you read the manf. specs they say "not" to pretwist.
Mike P.
bclymer
Member
- Location
- Nichols, NY.
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
Good it's agreed that we all (almost all)of us twist, which is a great thing. But - do any of you "Tango"
My attempt to be humorous.
Good it's agreed that we all (almost all)of us twist, which is a great thing. But - do any of you "Tango"
My attempt to be humorous.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
Mike
I am looking at the instructions for Ideal wirenuts and it says; "No pretwisting required - positive grip design provides fast, easy installation". But it shows a drawing of what looks like a pretwisted splice inside the cap.
Pierre
Mike
I am looking at the instructions for Ideal wirenuts and it says; "No pretwisting required - positive grip design provides fast, easy installation". But it shows a drawing of what looks like a pretwisted splice inside the cap.
Pierre
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
They must have removed this. At one time they claimed that it put stress on the wires.
Thanxs for the headsup.
Mike P.
They must have removed this. At one time they claimed that it put stress on the wires.
Thanxs for the headsup.
Mike P.
tonyi
Senior Member
Re: Econmics vs workmanship
A *properly* installed wire nut (not one of those "plumber special" type connections you always find on water heaters!) will indeed twist up the conductors very well as its torqued down. I've done it both ways, pre-twist and allow the nut to do it and saw no difference in the end result when I took the nuts off.
I will confess to somewhat pretwisting stranded though, if only to keep the bunch under control while getting the nut on it.
A *properly* installed wire nut (not one of those "plumber special" type connections you always find on water heaters!) will indeed twist up the conductors very well as its torqued down. I've done it both ways, pre-twist and allow the nut to do it and saw no difference in the end result when I took the nuts off.
I will confess to somewhat pretwisting stranded though, if only to keep the bunch under control while getting the nut on it.
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