EMFs and amps on water pipe

[tom baker]

One of our forum moderators, Karl Riley, wrote the book on EMFs and invented a gaussmeter. In this video he explains that most high levels of EMFs are from electrician wiring mistakes

His book is available on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/Tracing-EMFs-Building-Wiring-Grounding/dp/146990201X
A link between power line magnetic fields and childhood leukemia was revealed in a 1979 health study. More studies in the U.S. and Europe supported these findings, including links to other diseases. But when careful measurements were made in schools, offices and residences it was found that most high magnetic fields in buildings were caused by certain common wiring errors, as well as by electric currents on water pipes due to grounding practices. Karl Riley pioneered a successful method of tracing high magnetic fields to the site of the error. A simple correction clears the field. Though his clients in 17 states may see him as an electrical Sherlock Holmes, he follows a simple, logical measurement sequence which leads him inevitably to the spot where the error was made. Correction is simple and obvious. His entire diagnostic method is spelled out in this book, for the use of electricians or technically inclined home owners.
A metal water pipe with current creates EMF as the magenetic field does not cancel (IE the two conductors in Romex create a magnetic field that cancels.
In the video its interesting that you can get EMF even with the circuit conductors in EMT.

 

[GoldDigger]

One of our forum moderators, Karl Riley, wrote the book on EMFs and invented a gaussmeter. In this video he explains that most high levels of EMFs are from electrician wiring mistakes

His book is available on Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/Tracing-EMFs-Building-Wiring-Grounding/dp/146990201X
A link between power line magnetic fields and childhood leukemia was revealed in a 1979 health study. More studies in the U.S. and Europe supported these findings, including links to other diseases. But when careful measurements were made in schools, offices and residences it was found that most high magnetic fields in buildings were caused by certain common wiring errors, as well as by electric currents on water pipes due to grounding practices. Karl Riley pioneered a successful method of tracing high magnetic fields to the site of the error. A simple correction clears the field. Though his clients in 17 states may see him as an electrical Sherlock Holmes, he follows a simple, logical measurement sequence which leads him inevitably to the spot where the error was made. Correction is simple and obvious. His entire diagnostic method is spelled out in this book, for the use of electricians or technically inclined home owners.
A metal water pipe with current creates EMF as the magenetic field does not cancel (IE the two conductors in Romex create a magnetic field that cancels.
In the video its interesting that you can get EMF even with the circuit conductors in EMT.

Yes, a conductive structure can shield against electric fields but not magnetic fields.
A Faraday cage can be shield against electromagnetic (radio) waves because their cyclic magnetic field cannot exist without the corresponding cyclic electric field.

 

[grich]

There is a YouTube by a Canadian EE and ham radio operator from last year where he shows the static charge on his long wire antenna during a snow storm. He was able to draw an arc from the wire disconnected from the receiver.

Methinks he needs a protector where it comes into the building.

-Hal

And a static drain choke.

 

[kwired]

"The drain is at earth potential, the water line is at whatever potential is imposed on it by the GEC. Or if standing on a concrete or other conductive floor the floor is earth potential"

Ummm, (2014 NEC)
article 100
Ground
Grounding electrode
Grounding electrode conductor

250.50
250.52 (A) (1)-(8)
250.53
250.62 (F) (1)
250.68 (B)&(C)

250.92 (B)
250.94

General Fyi 250.96(B)

250.104 (A) , A(1) & (3)(B)
250.110
250.114
And so on.

So I still ask if all is bonded and grounded correctly how can one receive a shock at the sink.

Thank you for sharing.

sorry a little late to return

if you can assure zero impedance in all such bonds you will equalize any voltages.

Reality is there is always some impedance, and it there is current there is a voltage drop across that current path.

 

[K8MHZ]

There is a YouTube by a Canadian EE and ham radio operator from last year where he shows the static charge on his long wire antenna during a snow storm. He was able to draw an arc from the wire disconnected from the receiver.

Methinks he needs a protector where it comes into the building.

-Hal

I am pretty sure that the NEC actually says he is supposed to have such a protector. Somewhere in Chapter 8, IIRC.

 

[tom baker]

One of our forum moderators wrote the reference book on EMFs and invented the gausmeter for measuring. High EMFs are commonly from electrician wiring mistakes. But someone getting shocked thats another issue.

 

[Sahib]

Yes, a conductive structure can shield against electric fields

This explains why a fluorescent tubelight lights up under HV power lines and no person standing under them receives a shock. The human body is essentially a conductor and so equipotential under the electric field of HV power lines.

 

[macmikeman]

Tell whom ever works on the water line about the current and be really careful when they work on it.

I always suggest jumper cables around the metal water pipe section being cut out. Automotive ones work fine for this. Turning off the main disconnect has no effect sometimes on the current flow on the water piping system because the current sometimes is from some neighbor who has a reduced or open neutral and is unknowingly using the common water piping system to supply return current from his loads thru your water pipes, thru the bonding jumper at your service and back to the utility transformer via your neutral conductor in the service drop. I have seen this multiple times in my wanderings. 1.5 amps has the potential to kill someone at 120 or more volts.

 

[Fred B]

I always suggest jumper cables around the metal water pipe section being cut out. Automotive ones work fine for this. Turning off the main disconnect has no effect sometimes on the current flow on the water piping system because the current sometimes is from some neighbor who has a reduced or open neutral and is unknowingly using the common water piping system to supply return current from his loads thru your water pipes, thru the bonding jumper at your service and back to the utility transformer via your neutral conductor in the service drop. I have seen this multiple times in my wanderings. 1.5 amps has the potential to kill someone at 120 or more volts.

Seems like a good argument to not bond and use your waterline as a GEC. Question, would putting in some form of an isolation non conductive connection between the home water line and the common community waterline be recommended and would it be helpful in preventing objectionable current, and maybe deadly current from some neighbor? If installed 10 ft or more out from the house, seems system can still be bonded and and be a GEC.

 

[romex jockey]

High EMFs are commonly from electrician wiring mistakes

Most of us are aware of , and would be red tagged for the 'NEC violations' Karl points out Tom

What Karl fails to mention is the inherent flaws within our earthing system , as well as the NEC itself allowing for multi-grounded neutrals with any given structure being the root cause of power quality issues

~RJ~

 

[Sahib]

What Karl fails to mention is the inherent flaws within our earthing system , as well as the NEC itself allowing for multi-grounded neutrals with any given structure being the root cause of power quality issues

~RJ~

I think with low ground resistance values of multigrounded system, the lightning damages may be less.

 

[romex jockey]

I think with low ground resistance values of multigrounded system, the lightning damages may be less.

well yes it would be Sahib.

Yet at the same time it would be creating a better return path

This is the problem with systems incorporating a neutral

That our NEC believes the earth is not a conductor, yet assures us we'll have less than 25 ohms to it reveals their ignorance of basic electrical physics

Personally , i'm rather tired of my trade taking the blame for any of it

~RJ~

 

[Building Biologist Eric]

Hi, since I'm new, and this post will be screened (per the posting guidelines which I did read) I might not see your replies till I log on, but if you do, thank you.

We have a tenant with EHS (electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome. And I'm looking for ways to reduce EMFs.

Our electrician "replaced 200 amp service cable, meter socket and update grounding system" and thought this would reduce the EMFs but it hasn't. So, after this service was completed and sticker was placed tenant was still getting shocked at the kitchen sink and still reads high EMFs on the floor and walls.

Another electrical company inspected for ways to reduce EMFs and they found:
1. "Up to 1.3 amps of current was found flowing on water pipe GEC even with main breaker off suggesting a possible issue with the service neutral conductor or wiring fault. This type of current imbalance is known to cause elevated magnetic fields."
2. Some lights receive power even with main off. Therefore, there are circuits that appear to be inter-connected possibly between the two corresponding panels. This condition can lead to elevated magnetic fields."

The water company had to replace the water meter and that happened to be after the service work was done. I was reading through this post from 2008 to help with the amp on water pipe:

https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/amps-in-the-cold-water-pipe.52016/ which made me think about the water meter maybe being the culprit for the water pipe.

I thought the service work would have corrected any issue with the service neutral conductor, and I thought the water meter would help with the shock (it might have, I don't know yet). I just don't know how to reduce the EMFs.

Any thoughts on the 1.3 amps current -- is that 'high'? (I don't know if it was amps or milliamps, sorry.)
Any experience with reducing EMFs??

Thank you so much!!

Hello EGH,

I just joined this very interesting forum. I have been learning from Mike Holt for seven years now and really enjoy his visuals and manuals.

Looks like an apparent violation of NEC §250.6

1.3 amps of objectionable current indicates a N-G connection in the house or nearby. It also indicates a solid metallic connection from the house to other houses via a common metallic Water Service Supply Pipe (WSSP).

I also suggest checking the TV/internet cable for current as that is another possible pathway.

This is a shock hazard.
1.3 amps on the Water Service Supply Pipe (WSSP) will create 8.6 mG of magnetic field at 1' and 4.3 mG at 2': these are in the Extreme & Severe Concern range of Building Biology precautionary guidelines for sleeping areas. See link

mG fields of this level are correlated to health symptoms/problems in many independently funded, published and peer reviewed papers and studies.

I break the current on the WSSP by installing a 6' section of code compliant plastic pipe, outside the house, at a code compliant distance greater than 10' from the WSSP entry point to the house.

I use only licensed and insured electricians and plumbers for any work required for my clients.