- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
680.26(B) .....Bonding conductor provided to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area shall not be required to be extended or attached to remote panelboards, service equipment, or electrodes.
Equipotential grid
- Thread starter nickelec
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
What that means is you do not have to run your bonding conductor to the panelboard, service equipment or electrodes. Doesn't mean you can't or that if you happen to have a #12 EGC required to the pool pump that it won't inherently be bonded to the EGC because the pump requires both to land on it.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
I didn't say can't, I said don't have too. Have to go back a couple of posts.
Craigv
Senior Member
- Location
- Boyertown, PA, USA
That only says you don't have to specifically connect to panels, services or electrodes. The pump motor bonding is a requirement, so an EGC connection is a requirement.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
That is not what you said. You said it didn't need to be connected to the equipment grounding conductor.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
And I said that the code does not require it.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I don't think NEC requires a direct connection to an EGC, but in most cases you will typically at least have a pump circuit where you do have an EGC that inherently will get bonded to or (B)(6)(a) will make you bond to pump EGC for double insulated pump conditions.
If you for some reason had no electrical items, not even a electric pump, then I don't think you would have to bond to an EGC. I don't think that happens all that often though.
If you for some reason had no electrical items, not even a electric pump, then I don't think you would have to bond to an EGC. I don't think that happens all that often though.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The code states the equipotential bonding gets connected to the pump which is in turn connected to the equipment grounding conductor, or it shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor in the case of a double insulated pump.
Maybe you are playing with semantics, IDK but it seems pretty clear that it will be connected to the equipment grounding conductor one way or the other
Maybe you are playing with semantics, IDK but it seems pretty clear that it will be connected to the equipment grounding conductor one way or the other
Craigv
Senior Member
- Location
- Boyertown, PA, USA
That's what I've been saying. Thanks for citing the current code wording. I only had my '05 book here and knew the entry moved from 680.26(B)(4) but wasn't certain if the wording has changed. It hasn't.
The wording that was in an fpn in '05 stating "The 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor shall not be required to be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any electrode." in my opinion is what muddies the waters more than it clarifies. I think this is what leads to confusion and the impression that the equipotential bonding has no connection to equipment grounding.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
As worded there is no requirement to directly connect it to equipment grounding other then in the case of a double insulated pump. The connection to an EGC inherently happens when we bond to the pump motor or any other item that is also connected to the EGC.
680.26(A):"The equipotential bonding required by this section shall be installed to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area." kind of tells us the intent of equipotential bonding. We sort of don't care what the voltage is to items away from the pool, though if you bring anything connected to EGC into the area and you will be bonded to the EGC.
Craigv
Senior Member
- Location
- Boyertown, PA, USA
All that is true, and as Dennis said, there are wording semantics at play. A system wired according to code WILL be connected to the EGC. The fact that the connection is via the bond to the pump, which has an EGC connection is irrelevant from an electrical perspective. I don't understand why they back into this way with the indirect wording, and believe that they should require a stranded connection to the pump (vibration) or a direct connection to the EGC in all cases. Since a connection has to be made, make it clear and make it something that won't break due to vibration fatigue several years down the line.
FionaZuppa
Senior Member
- Location
- AZ
- Occupation
- Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
so you think 680 needs some revamping?
blkmagik21
Senior Member
- Location
- Kennewick
The pool pump is not the only place that the EGC is connected to the EPBG.
Pool autocover motor
Pool heater
Pool light
If there is only a pump on a basic pool then yes it would only be connected at that one spot. But does not need to be and that is why they word it the way they do. Because if you have a double insulated pool pump motor and that’s it on a basic pool then there will be no connection to the EGC. The EPBG is just there to make sure there is no differential between each metal item to protect from shock that way. All the EGC connection will do is make sure if something shirts to it that it trips the breaker or gfci. (Assuming it’s from that same power source as the ground)
A gfci will trip in both instances. But let’s say a power cord ran from the neighbors house on a non gfci outlet. Or a power line that falls down. (Unlikely but it can happen)
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Pool autocover motor
Pool heater
Pool light
If there is only a pump on a basic pool then yes it would only be connected at that one spot. But does not need to be and that is why they word it the way they do. Because if you have a double insulated pool pump motor and that’s it on a basic pool then there will be no connection to the EGC. The EPBG is just there to make sure there is no differential between each metal item to protect from shock that way. All the EGC connection will do is make sure if something shirts to it that it trips the breaker or gfci. (Assuming it’s from that same power source as the ground)
A gfci will trip in both instances. But let’s say a power cord ran from the neighbors house on a non gfci outlet. Or a power line that falls down. (Unlikely but it can happen)
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Craigv
Senior Member
- Location
- Boyertown, PA, USA
Yep.
Craigv
Senior Member
- Location
- Boyertown, PA, USA
680.26(B)(6)(a) Double-Insulated Water Pump Motors. Where a double insulated
water pump motor is installed under the provisions of
this rule, a solid 8 AWG copper conductor of sufficient length
to make a bonding connection to a replacement motor shall be
extended from the bonding grid to an accessible point in the
vicinity of the pool pump motor. Where there is no connection
between the swimming pool bonding grid and the equipment
grounding system for the premises, this bonding conductor
shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor of
the motor circuit.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Send in your PI ...
Now what happens if there is no electric driven pump for some reason? I know it would be rare but probably not impossible.
blkmagik21
Senior Member
- Location
- Kennewick
Large bodies of water installed are “supposed” to be installed with a bonding grid too but no one ever does.
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Craigv
Senior Member
- Location
- Boyertown, PA, USA
Then pigs fly!
FionaZuppa
Senior Member
- Location
- AZ
- Occupation
- Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
thats the new exercise craze that is coming right after yoga with goats dies off. in order to take a lap in the pool you need to pedal a stationary that has a belt drive pump on it, to circulate the water some before you take a dip
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I think you are leaving out some info. The entire lake doesn't need to be in the equipotential plane. LOL
This is for artificial and man-made bodies of water with electrical
.
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