EV circuit installation

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Is is a hard wired outlet or a receptacle outlet?

625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel​


In addition to the requirements in 210.8, all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
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tortuga said:
Is is a hard wired outlet or a receptacle outlet?
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Copy that, thank you. I haven’t seen the job yet but if I run emt the 8 awg thhn is 50 Amp, I should be able to use that provided my receptacle and breaker are 75 c, but NM B would require 6 AWG 334.80, otherwise USE or SE 6 awg is that correct
 
Yeah I think your good there. I try to hardwire them if the customer lets me, then no GFCI breaker or receptacle needed.
 
That would be great if I could use a standard breaker, what about the receptacle brand, are you paying the big money for the Hubble or a Home Depot 10-15 dollar one. Last one I bought from a local electrical supply was only about $12 I used for a 40 A range circuit, it seemed fine but the terminals were damaging my # 8 conductors as they were made to accommodate a wide range of wire size, I would have liked to crimp something on the ends of my wire for the terminal screws to crush down on but I wasn’t sure if that might make things worse.
 
wwhitney said:
Per post #2, if you are using a receptacle, then you will need to provide GFCI protection.


Cheers, Wayne
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I am using my phone as my internet has been down waiting on Frontier since Saturday, I only now realized I wasn’t seeing everything posted, my apologies to all. Ok from previous post it seems that without a doubt that with a receptacle I am going to have to buy a GFCI breaker and hardwired I won’t, definitely hardwired sounds like the far better option as this guy is getting quotes for $800-$900. I haven’t checked on the cost of a permit yet but will do that this morning, surrounding cities are expensive though , at least $200 for a circuit.
 
You need to know details about the EVSE. Not all are capable being hard-wired.
If installing a receptacle, a high-quality, industrial version is a must. You can find many examples of melted $10 Ideal receptacles on EV forums.
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retirede said:
You need to know details about the EVSE. Not all are capable being hard-wired.
If installing a receptacle, a high-quality, industrial version is a must. You can find many examples of melted $10 Ideal receptacles on EV forums.
956f27a0f396d70c7f2bc33c4842d6b3.jpg
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Excellent, thank you for that, I will definitely keep that in mind. So just to be clear, this is not a result of improper torquing or other misdeeds like a little of the insulation underneath the terminal screw, those Hubbles are around $100 and then about the same for the GFCI breaker
 
The whole range receptacle NEMA 14-50 for a EVSE is bizarre to me.
No electric car takes 120/240 thru the EVSE, its just 240.
I have only ever seen one Level 2 EVSE that uses a neutral, and that was a commercial 'pay to use' unit at a public library building about 10 years ago.
Now even those are all 240V.
 
tortuga said:
The whole range receptacle NEMA 14-50 for a EVSE is bizarre to me.
No electric car takes 120/240 thru the EVSE, its just 240.
I have only ever seen one Level 2 EVSE that uses a neutral, and that was a commercial 'pay to use' unit at a public library building about 10 years ago.
Now even those are all 240V.
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Right but the plug on the EVSE determines whether or not we use a neutral correct? Also if you hardwire then there would be no neutral either? Does some EVSE come with a neutral terminal for hardwiring? I just spoke to bldg/sfty $ 98 for the permit, no GFCI necessary if hardwired unless the manufacturers instructions call for it
 
tortuga said:
The whole range receptacle NEMA 14-50 for a EVSE is bizarre to me.
No electric car takes 120/240 thru the EVSE, its just 240.
I have only ever seen one Level 2 EVSE that uses a neutral, and that was a commercial 'pay to use' unit at a public library building about 10 years ago.
Now even those are all 240V.
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Agreed, but if I install a receptacle with a neutral terminal, I'm going to wire the neutral.
 
tortuga said:
The whole range receptacle NEMA 14-50 for a EVSE is bizarre to me.
No electric car takes 120/240 thru the EVSE, its just 240.
I have only ever seen one Level 2 EVSE that uses a neutral, and that was a commercial 'pay to use' unit at a public library building about 10 years ago.
Now even those are all 240V.
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I gather the problem is that there's no such thing as standard NEMA receptacles with two lines and a ground but no neutral. I think I would have seen that if it existed?

So they are using what they had. There's also the part where people want to be able to re-use existing receptacles, such as the dryer or welder in the garage. So the plug-in EVSEs are made for those.
 
Mark Steinberg said:
Right but the plug on the EVSE determines whether or not we use a neutral correct?
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No the EVSE manufacturers put a 4 wire range cord on there to be 'helpful'. Probably for compatibility with RV outlets.
But when I open them up they are all 240V, the neutral is sometimes just snipped off the cord not even on a terminal.
Mark Steinberg said:
Also if you hardwire then there would be no neutral either?
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Correct, always check the nameplate to verify.
jaggedben said:
I gather the problem is that there's no such thing as standard NEMA receptacles with two lines and a ground but no neutral.
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Its called a NEMA 6-50, 240V 2 hots + ground I use them for welders and kilns.
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Mark Steinberg said:
I am using my phone as my internet has been down waiting on Frontier since Saturday, I only now realized I wasn’t seeing everything posted, my apologies to all. Ok from previous post it seems that without a doubt that with a receptacle I am going to have to buy a GFCI breaker and hardwired I won’t, definitely hardwired sounds like the far better option as this guy is getting quotes for $800-$900. I haven’t checked on the cost of a permit yet but will do that this morning, surrounding cities are expensive though , at least $200 for a circuit.
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If it’s anywhere like Atlanta, the permit will be outrageous. I permitted a house at my previous company, City of Atlanta wanted a separate permit for the EV. That permit was more than the permit for the whole house! It’s all a money game.
 
I bought a used level 2 charger off Facebook marketplace. Took the cover off...of course, why not :) The plug is a 14-30P. The neutral is capped off right where the cord comes into the device with shrink tubing.

BTW, this is for my wife's Rav4 Prime -- it is a plug in hybrid. This thing is awesome. 50+ miles on a charge, switches to gas engine when the battery is low. It is so smooth you can't tell it switched to gas. I changed the oil at 6,000 miles and I probably could have put it back in the bottle it looked new. When on gasoline it gets 60+ mpg. Very very fast. Charges full overnight on the Toyota 120V charger or less time on the level 2 charger. Oh and it comes with a spare tire.
 
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