Expensive screw

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AC\DC said:
why should the remodeler be responsible at all.
Should off had a nail plate, Its was who ever installed it the first time issue.
Since its not complaint any damage he may have cause he should not be responsible for
I get he could of put one but unless he altered that stud , not his problem
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Would agree had He not been aware that it was there. Once He knows it's there I believe it is his responsibility to take steps to make sure He doesnt damage it.
 
Someone's insurance should come into play here, after the contractor covers deductibles.

Perhaps a collaboration between the contractor's and the homeowner's insurers.
 
AC\DC said:
why should the remodeler be responsible at all.
Should off had a nail plate, Its was who ever installed it the first time issue.
Since its not complaint any damage he may have cause he should not be responsible for
I get he could of put one but unless he altered that stud , not his problem
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So I've seen this many times, cable is over the 1 and a 1/4 inch deep and a remodeler drives in to attach a cabinet with a 3 inch screw and it penetrates the wire. Now this didn't require a nail plate, should we be "required" to install nail plates anyway (just in case) or should the remodeler be responsible for their failure to determine conditions before cutting or drilling.

2. The installation showing rag wire for service cable was mostly from the 50's was nail protection even available or in the code then?
 
AC\DC said:
why should the remodeler be responsible at all.
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Because they drove the screw. There's a part of tort law that basically says "you did it, you're responsible" even if you didn't or couldn't know it would happen ("unintentional tort"). There's a second and separate argument about apportioning the damages (money).

This is another place to let the insurance companies fight it out for who ultimately pays.
 
AC\DC said:
why should the remodeler be responsible at all.
Should off had a nail plate, Its was who ever installed it the first time issue.
Since its not complaint any damage he may have cause he should not be responsible for
I get he could of put one but unless he altered that stud , not his problem
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James L:Turned out a remodeler is updating a shower.
Installed tile backer board, and gave no thought to the service entrance cable coming through the corner from outside.

Let's assume that this is professional tile installation and they removed the existing shower wall and install new backer board and didn't overlay it.
He would have seen if they had removed the original sheathing.
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
James L:Turned out a remodeler is updating a shower.
Installed tile backer board, and gave no thought to the service entrance cable coming through the corner from outside.

Let's assume that this is professional tile installation and they removed the existing shower wall and install new backer board and didn't overlay it.
He would have seen if they had removed the original sheathing.
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Absolutely.... the OP says the guy knew it was there but thought He would miss it, Well He didn't lol
 
electrofelon said:
Code reference?
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Not the NEC. The POCO will have requirements for how and how much cable can be run within a building from the meter to the main disconnect. Here it's no more than 5 feet exposed, even in pipe. I have never seen anybody crazy enough to run unfused SE cable within a wall cavity like that. This is a perfect example of why that shouldn't be done. They are lucky the house didn't burn down from that incident.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
Not the NEC. The POCO will have requirements for how and how much cable can be run within a building from the meter to the main disconnect. Here it's no more than 5 feet exposed, even in pipe. I have never seen anybody crazy enough to run unfused SE cable within a wall cavity like that. This is a perfect example of why that shouldn't be done. They are lucky the house didn't burn down from that incident.

-Hal
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I believe ours is 5 ft also
 
I have a lot of clauses in my contracts, stating What I am not responsible for. Hidden conditions, damage to existing finishes and materials, that could not be reasonably avoided, on and on.

However, if the remodeler opened that wall, he should have put a nail plate over the wire, and what I do, is mark the where wire is on the adjacent wall as well, just to make dang sure I don’t hit it.

Managing risk. 👍
 
One of the reasons I don’t bid re-side jobs.

Unless your pulling the sheathing, you have no idea where the cables are.

Too nerve-wracking for me. 🤣
 
tom baker said:
It’s common to run SE cable from meter to service panel in basement
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Tom, where is this allowed?

If we agree any offending screw subjects service cable to damage, such use is not permitted.

338.12(A) => 230.50(B) requires raceways
 
hbiss said:
Not the NEC. The POCO will have requirements for how and how much cable can be run within a building from the meter to the main disconnect. Here it's no more than 5 feet exposed, even in pipe. I have never seen anybody crazy enough to run unfused SE cable within a wall cavity like that.
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Never had or heard of a POCO that cared about the conductors after the meter.

I do it frequently and don't see the issue. It's typically only 3-4 feet and I'll put in blocks to strap it in the middle of a stud bay.
 
electrofelon said:
Never had or heard of a POCO that cared about the conductors after the meter.

I do it frequently and don't see the issue. It's typically only 3-4 feet and I'll put in blocks to strap it in the middle of a stud bay.
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I haven’t either.
We don’t really care how long it is or where the main is located.
As long as the AHJ signs off and everything outside meets our specs for heights we connect them.

Quite honestly I wouldn’t have cared if the electrician had pulled the meter to make this safe.
We would have required an inspection to reconnect.
 
zbang said:
Because they drove the screw. There's a part of tort law that basically says "you did it, you're responsible" even if you didn't or couldn't know it would happen ("unintentional tort"). There's a second and separate argument about apportioning the damages (money).

This is another place to let the insurance companies fight it out for who ultimately pays.
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It's called "Contributory Negligence" ...
 
Suppose someone cut into a wall between studs and hit a plumbing stack. How cold anyone else be responsible?
 
AC\DC said:
if its installed non compliant then it’s not his fault. I gave an example in my last post
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What year was it installed? Was it or was it not compliant at that time? I can't answer that.

What I do know is there wasn't an issue with it before this guy who knew it was there put a screw or nail thru the thing
 
Buck Parrish said:
Did they have nail plates back in the old days?
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I have not seen any that old.

Once the cable was uncovered it would have been a good idea for the remodeler to install a nail plate so he wouldn't run a screw through the cable.. You really don't have to be an electrician to know there was a danger and install a nail plate.

If you look in old houses you find half the holes drilled about an inch from the edge of the stud and never any nail plates.
 
I have had the same window issue a couple of times. Around here most inspectors will allow you to screw the window shut if it's an uninhabited room like an attic window.

This one left a bad taste in my mouth.

But I did a job in Connecticut for my GF relative (figures) and this woman she was selling the place to move to Florida. Emergency change on a meter main that was burned up inside. I used the existing cable service drop and the inspector would not allow it because the attic window was too close to the drop which it was but had been that way since the house was built 60 years ago.

I tried to talk him into letting me screw the window shut....no. I told him I would put expanded metal on the inside or iron bars....no

I told my relative to get a window guy and replace the window (it's just an attic window) with a fixed window. She calls the realtor and ASKS HER......dumb. The buyer didn't like it.

So I told her it was going to cost$$. I had to get the POCO to move the drop and I had to change the SE cable.

Big emergency because the closing would have been delayed.

She thanked me 10 times over and over for getting it done.

Then she skipped town to FLA and never paid me
 
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