Fixing the NEC

[tortuga]

There's nothing to bond on a fiber drop to a house. Mine isn't bonded. I have never seen an intersystem bond used. What's the point of having something that isn't used?

Before we had these requirements I'd see cable guys and dish network installers bonding to a metal hoze bib that was on a PEX piping system, strange straps on service masts, I saw a CATV guy bond to a PVC mast. Just because one communications utility does it that was does not mean they all do, someone might still have Coax, landline DSL, or say Satellite dish, or other antenna type utilities. Then you might have interior com systems that need a place to bond. I might tend to agree if we still had the old Bell Telephone CWA trained phone installers from the 80's they got the bonding correct
And in my area they actually run a type of fiber that is armored and direct burial rated..

For 805.156 it was meant for a phone line. When it came in during what, 08?, we ran a Cat5 from outside to a 1g box inside to hook up a cordless phone base, because people still used land lines. That time has passed. Codes should be changed or deleted when they are obsolete.

See the definition of communications circut in article 100, a empty conduit is fine, and in multi family construction its tacky to have a brand new building then have the cable guy cover it with spaghetti coax or fiber.

 

[jim dungar]

US customary units followed in parentheses by the equivalent value in SI units is the only way. THIS IS THE US!!

Predominantly this seems only to be an issue with highway signs and construction trades. My mechanic has been using metric measurements for some 20 years and has no problem switching between them and inches.

 

[tortuga]

11. Get rid of the separate barrier rule for multi-gang meter packs.

Our State (Oregon) has a list of amendments, we did amend 230.71 to allow this, I think the original NFPA proposal was targeting 480V and above and I was going to submit an exception for something like 300V or less that would cover 240 and 208 systems but the state board basically decided to keep the 2017 wording.
If you can't change it at the NFPA, and your state is a small state like NH make a proposal to your state electrical board or whomever adopts the NEC to adopt the Oregon NEC amendments, they are written in a reusable fashion.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

805.156 just requires one communications outlet, it could literally be a empty 3/4" smurf tube, or even a pull string to a mud ring with a blank cover. You dont need to run a phone line.

That is in 720.9 in the 2026 code, but the problem is that it requires the communications outlet to be "cabled to the service provider demarcation point" If there is no communication supplier, there is on service provider demarcation point to cable the communication out to. The rule in 805.156 has the same issue. Physically impossible to comply with.
In discussions with some of the people on the low voltage task force, this rule is very unlikely to be in the 2029 code.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Handle tying multi wire branch circuits is the same thing.

The handle tie rule was driven by lack of training in the industry and some prior poor practices and a number of deaths and injuries because the worker had no idea he was working on a multiwire branch circuit, especially when the 3 breakers for a 3 phase multiwire branch circuit are scattered around the panel. For example the supply breakers for a 3 phase multiwire branch circuit are 1, 16, and 29. How is the worker to know that is a multiwire circuit and understand the hazards of working on the neutral of such a circuit when there is no indication that it is a multiwire circuit.

 

[hbiss]

My mechanic has been using metric measurements for some 20 years and has no problem switching between them and inches.

But he is working on things that are not made or designed here.

-Hal

 

[hbiss]

Switching to the metric system in the US was unanimously turned down each time it came up since 1926 when it was first proposed. Since we do not use the metric system, it is improper for an American publishing company that primarily publishes for US consumption to put SI units before US customary units. It's just an example of how the CMPs fail to think.

Further, what purpose does emphasizing SI units serve? For example, nobody here uses a metric tape measure to measure panel clearance, conduit diameter, support spacing or a million other things we measure every day.

-Hal

 

[AC\DC]

The system is open for the submission of Public Inputs to make changes for the 2029 code until end of day April 9th. Have at it, but remember most public inputs that are rejected are rejected for lack of a solid technical substantiation that supports the proposed change. For example, in your #1, saying they don't do anything and are worthless, is not a technical substantiation.

Yet all these stupid rules got in for same reason your claiming they won’t get removed it’s a joke

 

[zbang]

Since we do not use the metric system,

actually..... there was a GHW Bush executive order setting the use of the metric system as a national policy, it just wasn't mandatory. There was also the Metric Conversion act, signed by Ford, and a few others.

Besides, we do use metric units, or more correctly SI units, all the time - volts/watts/amperes/ohms are all SI. Many things are sold in liters or grams, or are marked with those - most people don't see that - length/distance seems to be the real sticking point. Come to think of it, IIRC dimensional lumber sizes are now specified in mm, but we still call it a 2 by 4 even though it hasn't been that for decades.

As long as it says "30.5cm (12 inches)" what's the problem? (12" = 30.48cm, but that's close enough for most things.) A couple of my tape measures have both.

 

[hbiss]

As long as it says "30.5cm (12 inches)" what's the problem?

Because it should say 12 inches (30.5cm) if there even needs to be a metric measurement given. It's just absolute stupidity because nobody needs it. They probably think that by ramming it down our throats eventually the new generation will accept it. It's all playing with our heads.

there was a GHW Bush executive order setting the use of the metric system as a national policy, it just wasn't mandatory. There was also the Metric Conversion act, signed by Ford, and a few others.

Which went absolutely no place.

-Hal

 

[going_commando]

The handle tie rule was driven by lack of training in the industry and some prior poor practices and a number of deaths and injuries because the worker had no idea he was working on a multiwire branch circuit, especially when the 3 breakers for a 3 phase multiwire branch circuit are scattered around the panel. For example the supply breakers for a 3 phase multiwire branch circuit are 1, 16, and 29. How is the worker to know that is a multiwire circuit and understand the hazards of working on the neutral of such a circuit when there is no indication that it is a multiwire circuit.

While I understand the intent, the problem is it's more of a hazard now, because new electricians expect them to be handle tied. It wasn't done into the 90s, so most places a guy works in won't have handle ties. Most places I work that are newly wired (20 years old or newer) skip MWBCs completely and run separate neutrals. I'm still partial to them, as 9 circuits in a 3/4 emt is a handy time and $ saver. I do handle tie them, but most places I do work in that use them aren't handle tied.

 

[tom baker]

“Code is code.
We don’t like the rules we don’t agree with.
It’s ok for someone else.
But not if it costs us time and money”
Mike Holt said this in one of his seminars

 

[going_commando]

actually..... there was a GHW Bush executive order setting the use of the metric system as a national policy, it just wasn't mandatory. There was also the Metric Conversion act, signed by Ford, and a few others.

Besides, we do use metric units, or more correctly SI units, all the time - volts/watts/amperes/ohms are all SI. Many things are sold in liters or grams, or are marked with those - most people don't see that - length/distance seems to be the real sticking point. Come to think of it, IIRC dimensional lumber sizes are now specified in mm, but we still call it a 2 by 4 even though it hasn't been that for decades.

As long as it says "30.5cm (12 inches)" what's the problem? (12" = 30.48cm, but that's close enough for most things.) A couple of my tape measures have both.

All the sawmills I've been in use inches, including one built 2 years ago.

I do keep a metric tape measure in the van. It makes laying out VFD mounting holes way easier. Dealing with "11 37/64" is stupid, because the drive manufacturer just runs their metric measurement through a calculator and don't care that we can only measure to a 1/16.