Flat rate pricing

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Ruff-N

Ruff-N

Member
satcom said:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/1201pricegouge01.html
Price gouging for one thing, out state board warns about pricing practices, and here is some information on the issue
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Definition of price gouging: noun:
pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available According to the link you posted this is only during emergency situations ie. Hurricane Katrina


So if an EC prices his rates at X-$$$ and there are other EC that can beat that price then the customer has a right to chose what EC he or she will use in this case it is not price gouging.
 
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hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
It doesn't make a difference how you come up with your price, you need to have value to the customer or they will go elsewhere and right now it's a buyers market (in many markets).

So, you need to know what your bottom line numbers are (not the customers) and if they are too high to get jobs, you need to learn to sell better, or lower your overhead, or get into a specialty that will support your overhead.

This is not rocket science.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
petersonra said:
Maybe I am missing something but I have replaced several bathroom fans myself and it never took more than 15 or 20 minutes and I am a terrible electrician.

Are you running new duct work as well?
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petersonra said:
I have replaced a couple where all I had to do was remove the existing unit and install a new one. It did not take me all that long. But I did not run any wiring, or duct, or have to fiddle with the dry wall. Just took out what was there and put a new one in its place.
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Bob it can take 15 minutes just to get the junk out of the way just so you can get in many attics.

Just try crawling up through a little scuttle hole in a closet and then crawling through a foot or two of insulation just to get to where you can try to pry the nails loose that they used to mount those old fans with.

These are not the hard ones because at least there is access. On the bottom floors there is no access.

The people that don't do this sort of work always know how fast and easy it is and that's because they don't do this sort of work.
 
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satcom

Senior Member
Ruff-N said:
Definition of price gouging: noun:
pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available According to the link you posted this is only during emergency situations ie. Hurricane Katrina


So if an EC prices his rates at X-$$$ and there are other EC that can beat that price then the customer has a right to chose what EC he or she will use in this case it is not price gouging.
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The consumer protection laws take a different view, and they will use every definition in the book when the attorney general takes a case to court, The state board of electrical contractors has not lost many of the cases on what they considered over pricing, a check of the minutes of the board meetings, will show all the contractors, that thought they knew the law, and are making payments to pay the penalty and fines.
http://www.abanet.org/antitrust/at-...programs/spring-06/price-gouging-statutes.pdf
 
Ruff-N

Ruff-N

Member
growler said:
The people that don't do this sort of work always know how fast and easy it is and that's because they don't do this sort of work.
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Is that like the old saying a GC will tell the customer "Sure, change out those can lights don't worry he can do it in five minutes"
 
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petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
growler said:
Bob it can take 15 minutes just to get the junk out of the way just so you can get in many attics.

Just try crawling up through a little scuttle hole in a closet and then crawling through a foot or two of insulation just to get to where you can try to pry the nails loose that they used to mount those old fans with.

These are not the hard ones because at least there is access. On the bottom floors there is no access.

The people that don't do this sort of work always know how fast and easy it is and that's because they don't do this sort of work.
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I don't recall having to go in the attic at all when I replaced the ones I did. They came out from underneath and the new one went in the same spot.

I have done a couple of ceiling fans without having to go in the attic as well.
 
cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
rodneee said:
i am still tying to figure out how flat rate pricing can be compared to price gouging
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The total price of the job is supposed to be on the contract. So if you tell someone that you can change out a ceiling fan for $100, then it's $100, not, oh well, I didn't realize that there was a plastic box there. Not the customers problem. You should have looked at that before you gave them a price.

Don't use flat pricing just to get your foot in the door, you can call it upselling, but many people see it as price gouging.
 
Rewire

Rewire

Senior Member
Location
Lake of the Ozarks
satcom said:
The consumer protection laws take a different view, and they will use every definition in the book when the attorney general takes a case to court, The state board of electrical contractors has not lost many of the cases on what they considered over pricing, a check of the minutes of the board meetings, will show all the contractors, that thought they knew the law, and are making payments to pay the penalty and fines.
http://www.abanet.org/antitrust/at-...programs/spring-06/price-gouging-statutes.pdf
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Show me one case were a contractor was fined or charged a penalty under normal conditions for overcharging. The statute you reference is only for disasters and not everyday pricing.
 
Rewire

Rewire

Senior Member
Location
Lake of the Ozarks
cowboyjwc said:
The total price of the job is supposed to be on the contract. So if you tell someone that you can change out a ceiling fan for $100, then it's $100, not, oh well, I didn't realize that there was a plastic box there. Not the customers problem. You should have looked at that before you gave them a price.

Don't use flat pricing just to get your foot in the door, you can call it upselling, but many people see it as price gouging.
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Flat rate is the best way to price service work and because flat rate is priced up front the customer is fully aware of the charge before the work is done unlike an hourly rate where the final tally could be anything or even a contract that were work is "out of scope"..
 
Ruff-N

Ruff-N

Member
satcom said:
The consumer protection laws take a different view, and they will use every definition in the book when the attorney general takes a case to court, The state board of electrical contractors has not lost many of the cases on what they considered over pricing, a check of the minutes of the board meetings, will show all the contractors, that thought they knew the law, and are making payments to pay the penalty and fines.
http://www.abanet.org/antitrust/at-...programs/spring-06/price-gouging-statutes.pdf
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The link you posted is all in case of a declared state of emergency, except for the one in Michigan and I would bet flat rate pricing is used in that state and is legal, of course if you are going to charge grandma jones $8000.00 to change a light bulb, then yea, you should be prosucuted. But how is flat rate pricing illegal and if it is why haven't the authorities put a stop to it. That would make anyone publishing, producing, writing, selling, etc. flat rate pricing material a criminal. Come now lets be resonable.
:)PARANOIA STRIKES AGAIN!
 
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satcom

Senior Member
Ruff-N said:
The link you posted is all in case of a declared state of emergency, except for the one in Michigan and I would bet flat rate pricing is used in that state and is legal, of course if you are going to charge grandma jones $8000.00 to change a light bulb, then yea, you should be prosucuted. But how is flat rate pricing illegal and if it is why haven't the authorities put a stop to it. That would make anyone publishing, producing, writing, selling, etc. flat rate pricing material a criminal. Come now lets be resonable.
:)PARANOIA STRIKES AGAIN!
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The flat rate companies that operate with independent contractors and charge what the board of electrical contractors consider gouging or over priced, are fined and some loose their license. The laws differ from state to state, our company has been using contract pricing since the 50's so flat rate is nothing new for us.
 
Ruff-N

Ruff-N

Member
satcom said:
The flat rate companies that operate with independent contractors and charge what the board of electrical contractors consider gouging or over priced, are fined and some loose their license. The laws differ from state to state, our company has been using contract pricing since the 50's so flat rate is nothing new for us.
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In a case where a complaint is filed by a customer because he or she feels was over charged by a company I think would go to a small claims court lawyer and in an extreme case the AG of the state not the State board of electrical contractors IMO. I don't know I think we are beating a dead horse, but a good discussion and learning experiance, anything I can learn from you folks is priceless and we all have opinions and I respect that :)
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Rewire said:
how did you get the nails out of the ceiling joist?
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petersonra said:
I don't recall there being any. I would have recalled having to go in the attic though. it's not real easy to get up there.
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Bob you may have replaced an exhaust fan that was never properly mounted in the first place.

But if the fan is mounted correctly and the duct is installed correctly someone will be making a trip to the attic. The duct is supposed to be installed as straight as possible and strapped and this often will not allow a connection from the bottom.

If a person installs a fan for their own use they can do whatever they want but if it's installed for money and by a professional then it should be installed correctly and this may take a few minutes longer. This includes the proper mounting with screws or nails and the proper connection and securing of the duct to insure proper air flow. And much of this work gets done in an attic and most of the time in very limited space to work with while swimming in insulation and at a tempurature of about 120 F degress.

In short it's not half the fun that most people think it is.;)
 
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